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Topic Review (Newest First)
07-21-2019 06:14 AM
KM06 The rear tie rods are not tie(s) they are toe rods which should be self explanatory. There should be little to no toe, when you get your numbers the rod is locked down and you will find the inner eccentric bushings difficult if not impossible to turn. The front looks like a camber issue (a cheap way to check for excessive toe is to pull turns on a black top parking lot; there will likely be some (normal) squeak but if it sounds like 3 rats in a water bucket it's out) there is an 8mm screw at the top of the spindle, it locks the camber by making firm contact with the strut or in your case the coil over body. With it setup the camber in relation to the spindle/strut can not go more negative. It is (in theory) possible to pull those threads, not likely but if you look at everything and still have a problem you didn't look at everything. Was there also an eccentric top mount with the coil overs? If that is not torqued to spec the mount can turn in it's place, since there is 16-18 between it and the bottom mount it takes very little to can the setup and the locking screw on the spindle will not help you in that case. May be a bushing thing, if you are still on OEM's take them out, throw them as far as you can, find them and throw them again, repeat until you are no longer homicidal toward the engineer that thought that BS was a good idea (I'm out to 2 miles and still got it in for that sob). Are the radius rod bushings after market and if so the caster adjustable type? That is another thing that can move around. Do not take the shop's word on everything torqued, trust me on this one; if it is less than a cake walk (such as the outer rear CA bushings) don't say I didn't warn you, check everything. As far as alignment you will need to look long and hard for a shop that will setup anything outside of factory spec; it is purely a liability issue. After 3 attempts, 3 different shops, specing the numbers I wanted, watch the service managers write them on the order, instructing them on the adjustments (and note it) (4 camber bolts on the front, 4 bushings rear) going ON TO THE SHOP FLOOR showing the tech('s) exactly what to do and not getting even close to my numbers I bought the tools and now do it myself. The last (small, privately owned) shop gave me the 411 on setting up out of factory spec; strictly CYA. The tools are simple, no black magic involved and not very expensive (less than the cost of 2 alignments) but it IS a pain in the azz and not for everyone. Many will say such as 'That's just the way ____ are' and be happy with blowing it off and bad mouthing, if it's that annoying sell it to me. While it may be true in many cases that does not mean it has to stay that way, you don't change plugs due to a miss, still have it and blame the new plugs as well because 'That's just the way ____ are' when the real problem is the flaky wire on #3.
07-13-2019 12:14 AM
yellow
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaBBG...View Post
I have had issues for 2 years now with my camber changing routinely, ruining many many tires. Had to make some tabs to keep the knuckles in place.

I had this happen to me also when autox. Made some half moon shape inserts out of 3/16" thick aluminum to fit tight in the slot space at upper clevis bolt. Than smeared lots of blue loctite on the small camber adjuster bolts and tightened everything really tight. This way there is no movement, its all locked in.
07-11-2019 05:16 PM
yellow
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackgoat90...View Post
I've heard it said that you want slight toe in so under load the wheels are straight. Then I red that GTOs front wheels splay back more than most due to suspension geometry and should use extra toe-in to avoid toe out wear, something along the lines of 0.10 on each wheel.



I'll try anything. Heck, maybe I'll just go under there and give each side a turn and see what happens. Couldn't hurt if they both change the same amount.

Not only because of suspension geometry. OEM suspension bushings on GTO are not that great and finding correct toe-in to compensate for all the movements under different loads will get you close to having correct toe on average, at best. And it will be off, lots of the time, in one or the other direction. Having strut mounts, control arm bushings and ball joints, radius arm bushings and tie rod ball joints in good order is starting point. If any of these parts are worn out, alignment is out the window the second you start driving again.
Upgrading to stronger, higher quality and in case of bushings, stiffer parts will keep the wheels in alignment more of the time. Tightening all the nuts and bolts in the suspension little pass specified torque may help with keeping it in alignment for longer (over-tighten at your own risk!!!).
07-11-2019 01:57 PM
blackgoat90
Quote:
Originally Posted by yellow...View Post
Main reason for tire wear is toe. It is best to set it at 0 toe for tire wear.

I've heard it said that you want slight toe in so under load the wheels are straight. Then I red that GTOs front wheels splay back more than most due to suspension geometry and should use extra toe-in to avoid toe out wear, something along the lines of 0.10 on each wheel.



I'll try anything. Heck, maybe I'll just go under there and give each side a turn and see what happens. Couldn't hurt if they both change the same amount.
07-11-2019 01:27 PM
yellow
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackgoat90...View Post
The GTO needs more toe-in than regular cars

Main reason for tire wear is toe. It is best to set it at 0 toe for tire wear.
07-11-2019 12:42 PM
blackgoat90 A year and a half later and I have this problem again only now its much more pronounced on the driver side...

I'm going to go out on a limb and say it's one of two things:

Outer tie rod ends are stock and have 93k miles on them
The GTO needs more toe-in than regular cars

Could be inner tie rod or ball joints I suppose but it doesn't sound like those are as likely as the outer tie rod ends.
12-06-2017 09:07 AM
blackgoat90
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO-Cole...View Post
Can you tell me what shop you went to and where they're located? I've been looking for a good alignment place.


Thanks,
Cole

I got referred to a BMW shop called Bavarian Motorsport in Milpitas. They were expensive but they seemed to do a good job. Doesn't seem like my eccentrics in the rear have loosened so I'm happy so far.

Milpitas isn't close to Simi though unfortunately...
12-05-2017 02:01 PM
GTO-Cole
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackgoat90...View Post
So a quick update on this.

The shop I took it to said one of my eccentric bushings was loose... this could have easily caused the tire wear issue. I'm not 100% convinced because this issue had occurred before I had eccentrics put in, but for now things seem to be holding up. (Other than my aftermarket motormounts that failed at the track...)

Hopefully it was just that the shop that installed them didn't tighten them enough.. One can only hope.

Can you tell me what shop you went to and where they're located? I've been looking for a good alignment place.


Thanks,
Cole
11-28-2017 03:03 PM
blackgoat90
Quote:
Originally Posted by cookmeup272...View Post
That's because it was the answer to someone else's question lol.

OH. Lol that makes more sense.
11-28-2017 03:00 PM
cookmeup272 That's because it was the answer to someone else's question lol.
11-28-2017 02:54 PM
blackgoat90
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiPopeye36...View Post
Search. They are posted here numerous times.

https://www.ls1gto.com/forums/showthread.php?t=747042


This has nothing to do with my question so that isn't very helpful.

Edit: Nevermind, missed the post before this.
11-28-2017 02:52 PM
blackgoat90 So a quick update on this.

The shop I took it to said one of my eccentric bushings was loose... this could have easily caused the tire wear issue. I'm not 100% convinced because this issue had occurred before I had eccentrics put in, but for now things seem to be holding up. (Other than my aftermarket motormounts that failed at the track...)

Hopefully it was just that the shop that installed them didn't tighten them enough.. One can only hope.
10-30-2017 07:26 AM
kebler2005 My alignment guy wasn't tightening the retaining screw on the front struts. That bastard. I can tell if you a lowered car just a slight change in tire pressure can change the alignment of the steering wheel.
10-28-2017 12:31 PM
ATITOOD I get mine aligned once a year. Sometimes it is out and sometimes it is not.
I have no tire wear either. jmtc
10-28-2017 11:29 AM
DaBBG I have had issues for 2 years now with my camber changing routinely, ruining many many tires. Had to make some tabs to keep the knuckles in place.
10-27-2017 05:40 PM
SkiPopeye36 Search. They are posted here numerous times.

https://www.ls1gto.com/forums/showthread.php?t=747042
10-27-2017 11:50 AM
iamquackary Does anyone have an idea of what the alignment specs should be on these cars? I have a rack at work and can do it myself, id just like to know what specs are best to set it up as. Currently lowered on BC coilovers and have whiteline strut bushings and radius rod bushings.
10-27-2017 07:26 AM
blackgoat90
Quote:
Originally Posted by LS2-GTO...View Post
I don't remember exactly but the steering wheel was never straight, car pulled inconsistently and if I got on the brakes hard the tire would practically contact the wheel well.

The other problem was I'd get an alignment check and everything would show good - when static on the alignment rig. Drive the car and everything would go out of wack.

Pedders RR bushing we're a necessary investment and are still functioning properly after many years and many miles.

Yeah, I'm not too suspecting of the RR bushings because I have Noltec bits on both the front and the rear, and this problem existed when they were brand new. Also not getting inconsistent pulling or odd behavior under braking.

That sounds similar though, I would get it aligned but then either something went out of whack immediately, or the alignment got smurfed over time. Usually after an alignment, the car tracks straight, but the steering wheel is turned slightly to the right. I thought maybe that was just due to road crown, but one time, I went back to the place that aligned it and said that the wheel wasn't straight, so he had me hold it in place where I wanted it and checked it again. The odd thing I noticed was as soon as he loosened up the machine, the wheel just turned to the right slightly... weird.

I'll see what happens on Monday.. hopefully if there is something odd these guys can pin it down.
10-27-2017 04:40 AM
LS2-GTO
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackgoat90...View Post
Damn, that looks exactly the same.

Odd though as I have blue front and rear radius rod bushings...

So, with a failed radius rod bushing you effectively run around with toe out, right?

I don't remember exactly but the steering wheel was never straight, car pulled inconsistently and if I got on the brakes hard the tire would practically contact the wheel well.

The other problem was I'd get an alignment check and everything would show good - when static on the alignment rig. Drive the car and everything would go out of wack.

Pedders RR bushing we're a necessary investment and are still functioning properly after many years and many miles.
10-26-2017 02:23 PM
littlerbigfoot I replaced the tie rod ends a few months ago. The new ones were of the same exact measurements. Very convenient, I thought. The car still pulled like it did after traversing that damn speed bump. Just a few days ago, I checked tire pressures. All four corners were equally low, at 25 pounds. Remember 'equally' because the car then magically began tracking straight after adding 5 pounds to each. Still can't figure out this one.
So, at the moment, no alignment until doing a full suspension rebuild. I will do a tire rotation before the weather turns, though.
10-26-2017 10:02 AM
blackgoat90
Quote:
Originally Posted by LS2-GTO...View Post
Hey, that looks familiar.
For my car it was the radius rod bushings, haven't needed an alignment since.



https://www.ls1gto.com/forums/showthread.php?t=213393

Damn, that looks exactly the same.

Odd though as I have blue front and rear radius rod bushings...

So, with a failed radius rod bushing you effectively run around with toe out, right?
10-25-2017 05:24 AM
MoonShiner 134k miles on my car. Only had alignment issues twice. First when it was new. Radius rod bushings (along with full Pedders suspension) fixed that. The other time was last year when a tie rod went out. I have it checked often since my wife works in service but it's never out.
10-25-2017 05:14 AM
LS2-GTO Hey, that looks familiar.
For my car it was the radius rod bushings, haven't needed an alignment since.



https://www.ls1gto.com/forums/showthread.php?t=213393
10-25-2017 03:23 AM
Blue Dream I'm a big fan of lifetime alignments from local, reputable shops. My guys here charge less than the price of 2 alignments for the lifetime and I get 2 free alignments a year. This was more important in the past when I modded my cars but still nice to have with the Goat. Plus they are a cool bunch and I enjoy a morning at the shop drinking coffee and picking their brains.
10-24-2017 05:17 PM
k9frog I had my 04 aligned when i bought it couple years ago, Just the front needed it ,I have put about 800 miles on the car since the alignment best i can tell all is still fine,All my tires show even ware ,My car 18800 miles
10-24-2017 04:10 PM
blackgoat90 The issue was only on the passenger front, and since I got the two fronts aligned, I haven't noticed an issue yet. The shop just told me to install tie-rods so they could do the rear even though I tried to explain to them that there were eccentric bushings in the rear and no tie-rods... but I could tell that was not going to go anywhere good.

So I'm getting it aligned at a supposedly reputable shop next Monday, then have a weekend at the track in November. Might want to just go get it checked after the event to see if anything shifts... especially if I go off.

So I am guessing by the lack of folks saying they get aligned every year or so, this isn't a widespread GTO thing, and probably something with my car that causes the alignment to shift?
10-20-2017 07:13 PM
EricBlueGTO Only on the passenger front? How's the driver front? I started doing my own alignments about 15 years ago. A majority of shops don't have a clue what they are doing. My home made alignments show very even and regular tire wear. I struggled for a long time with rear inner tire wear when my car was new. It was the crap stock springs causing excessive negative camber. A really bad alignment tech will "set the toe and let it go". You might have excessive negative camber, a worn bushing, something physically rubbing. If you have been going to the same shop, go somewhere else for a different opinion.
10-20-2017 02:14 PM
blackgoat90
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nothubertjfarnsworth...View Post
i forget where on the tire strut rub shows up, either on the edge of the tread or the sidewall... but it should show up as wear marks on the strut as well.

off the top of my head, other things i would check would be the knuckle to strut clevis bolts and the small bolt that adjusts the camber, ball joint wear, and strut mount wear.

if you ever have done any work that involved removing those two large knuckle-to-strut bolts, do you use new nord lock washers, or reuse the old ones?

Just thinking over time the bolts may loose torque and let the adjustment go out of spec. which is also probably kind of dangerous for other reasons...

i'll take a peek in the service manual tonight if i have time and see what else i can find.

Probably should have mentioned that I have KW coilovers with Noltec offset strut mounts, and can confirm there is no contact between the tire and the coilover. As far as I can remember, I have never replaced those lock washers, but have definitely gone through several iterations of removing those bolts.

That would indeed be alarming if they were coming loose, or at least loose enough to shift under road impacts.

Standard inspection methods didn't show any issue with the ball joints the last time I had the issue and checked them, but its probably worth checking again...
10-20-2017 01:55 PM
Nothubertjfarnsworth i forget where on the tire strut rub shows up, either on the edge of the tread or the sidewall... but it should show up as wear marks on the strut as well.

off the top of my head, other things i would check would be the knuckle to strut clevis bolts and the small bolt that adjusts the camber, ball joint wear, and strut mount wear.

if you ever have done any work that involved removing those two large knuckle-to-strut bolts, do you use new nord lock washers, or reuse the old ones?

Just thinking over time the bolts may loose torque and let the adjustment go out of spec. which is also probably kind of dangerous for other reasons...

i'll take a peek in the service manual tonight if i have time and see what else i can find.
10-20-2017 01:53 PM
blackgoat90
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duckman...View Post
There are numerous causes of tire wear in a GTO. At a minimum alignment should be checked with each set of tires.

Often times the above wear is what drives the new set of tires, in the front anyway...
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