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Old 07-14-2019, 09:47 PM   #1
leomio
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Dreaded Safe Mode

I'll keep this as short as possible.

2005 Pontiac GTO. I had the car go into Safe Mode randomly about a year or so ago and researched and found the 05's have a common issue with the gas pedal sensor. Found a used 06 pedal, that are supposedly less problematic, on eBay and installed it and all was well. Few weeks ago the issue reappeared. Found new pedals from AUS from Holmart and ordered, installed and still has the same issue. Before it would only really be an issue if I went WOT, vehicle would be fine just driving around normally. Now, even cruising on the highway after approx 20mins it will occur suddenly (car runs perfectly fine prior to). You feel the car begin to hesitate and then the warning pops, even with almost no throttle input. Looks like the next area to look is the actual TB or possibly wiring. Where to I even begin to check to see if either is the case? I'm not really savvy on electrical.

Ran the codes and got:
p0606
p2122
p2128
p2135

I've tried cleaning the throttle body as well as the wires/connections to the TB. Don't see any spliced/exposed wiring. Vehicle has just barely over 50k miles on it.

Thanks for any productive input.
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Old 07-15-2019, 03:49 AM   #2
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Did you do a throttle relearn, or swapping on a known good throttle body?

The p0606 is concerning. It's an ECM processor fault code.

Last edited by Nothubertjfarnsworth; 07-15-2019 at 03:51 AM.
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Old 07-15-2019, 04:17 AM   #3
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I have had the same problem for a few years now, it has become less often and very random. I only get P2135 codes. Clear the codes and I'm fine for a good while. I've tried a new pedal and a different throttle body, problem remains. I plan to in the near future replace the pigtail connector at the throttle body because I can't think of anything else to try. I've heard that the TB pigtail wiring actually fails quite often on LS engines, can be a real problem on the LS powered trucks for some reason.

Honestly, I can't imagine why GM would have made replacement pigtails available if this wasn't a know and fairly common problem. The only problem is, once the pigtail has been replaced, how do you really know if the problem has been solved? In my case the safe mode only pops up once every 3-4 months at most.

One good test to do is: the next time this occurs, wiggle and reseat the bulkheads at the ECU and the throttle body. Make sure all the pins look good. Then clear the codes and see if it is cured (at least for a while). In my instance I couldn't get it to occur while running by wiggling the wires, but I did put a zip tie around the wires right near the connector at the TB so those wires couldn't really move much as the engine vibrates and moves and this really cut down the number of occurrences, this is why I'm thinking a pigtail replacement may do the trick.
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Old 07-15-2019, 06:39 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nothubertjfarnsworth...View Post
Did you do a throttle relearn, or swapping on a known good throttle body?

The p0606 is concerning. It's an ECM processor fault code.

I did not do a throttle relearn, didn't realize one was required (didn't do it with the last pedal replacement). A search showed its:

Clear codes
Idle 3mins (do not touch gas pedal)
Off for 1min
Idle 3mins
Off for 1min
Clear any codes and test drive at varying speeds.

Is this correct? It's odd that the message only pops after an extended time driving. Then again, the issue was exacerbated with the new pedal, so it could be, I'll do it and report back.
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Old 07-15-2019, 07:19 AM   #5
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I've never done a throttle relearn either. Do I need to do that? I've put in various new tunes over this time period, does installing a new tune file cause a reset of the throttle making a relearn unnecessary?
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Old 07-15-2019, 09:18 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leomio...View Post
I did not do a throttle relearn, didn't realize one was required (didn't do it with the last pedal replacement). A search showed its:

Clear codes
Idle 3mins (do not touch gas pedal)
Off for 1min
Idle 3mins
Off for 1min
Clear any codes and test drive at varying speeds.

Is this correct? It's odd that the message only pops after an extended time driving. Then again, the issue was exacerbated with the new pedal, so it could be, I'll do it and report back.

I think you can also use hptuners, but don't quote me.
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Old 07-15-2019, 09:19 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Rich-Tripower...View Post
I've never done a throttle relearn either. Do I need to do that? I've put in various new tunes over this time period, does installing a new tune file cause a reset of the throttle making a relearn unnecessary?

I've never had to do one.
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Old 07-15-2019, 11:13 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nothubertjfarnsworth...View Post
I've never had to do one.

But I guess it doesn't hurt so I might as well. Any idea if it has to be warmed up when doing the 3 min/1min/3 min/1 min/drive cycle? I should ask my tuner if he used the magic TB reset button in HPTuner when loading the new tune into my car. I still have to go back and have him adjust up the idle speed when the AC is on anyway, so maybe he could do it then if he didn't already.
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Old 07-15-2019, 12:45 PM   #9
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i'll check in hptuners and the service manual tonight
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Old 07-16-2019, 07:16 AM   #10
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Will I be rowing?

Greetings Guys; I'm now in the same boat, I'll row since I don't know where this is taking me? The dreaded P-2135 & the costs to replace! Not to mention the availability?? Now I wish I had purchased the 04 that was my original intention. So who has a new gas pedal switch? later Ole' Bob.
Ps: Rich I've been watching your modest mods, as we tend to think alike. Only I'm a few years behind ya.
Pss: So now at least I have the body the way I had envisioned way back. That only took 13 years!
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Old 07-16-2019, 07:25 AM   #11
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When this issue started with mine I bought a brand new pedal assembly which was supposed to be the "improved" part number. It did not fix the problem. I then cleaned my original and put it back in. It did not fix the problem.

There is an ancient thread around here somewhere on how to clean the rheostat inside the assembly, things are VERY delicate in there. That could be the place to start if you suspect the pedal. But if my experience is anything to go by the pedal isn't likely the problem.

My tuner has suggested turning off the P2135 code in the tune and I might just take him up on the offer. And since my car exhibits absolutely no other malfunctions or symptoms I don't see a downside to turning off the code. I just have to decide if I want to try replacing the TB pigtail first or not. That's the real problem with this issue, there is no clear place to start to try to fix it and it may be 6 months before you can even have a feeling you have addressed it fully.
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Old 07-16-2019, 09:48 AM   #12
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I’m not aware of anyway to do a throttle relearn in HP Tuners.
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Old 07-16-2019, 11:35 AM   #13
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I have been pouring over my official shop manuals for the GTO and I cannot find anything about the idle relearn reset process. Can anyone confirm or deny the procedure mentioned above being the correct one or not? A search on the internet found a number of different procedures listed so I'm even more confused than before on what the proper relearn procedure actually would be without a Tech II or HPTuners, just need a manual process.
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Old 07-16-2019, 03:47 PM   #14
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Well, since I didn't get a response and since I had a few minutes to spare I drove the GTO around until it was warmed up (took about 2 seconds in this weather) and then did the relearn process as outlined above 3/1/3/1/start and drive around. I honestly didn't expect much and I have to say right up front my idle is steady if just a touch higher than it was a year ago (maybe 850 when it used to be 800). Probably something to do with the new tune. Regardless, my only hope is that it does something for the P2135 code situation.

Anyway, I went through the process. When I started it for the last time, it struggled to fire at first, then stumbled and started and idled just fine. No idea if that was due the relearn process starting or because it was 95 degrees out and it had been idling and sitting and heatsoaking for nearly 10 minutes. I then drove around and I do have to say that the throttle seemed rather sluggish, kind of like the pedal to TB mapping had changed to a lower ratio. Anyway, it ran fine and drove fine.

I drove around varying the throttle position a lot in most gears. I did a few WOT bursts in 1st and 2nd. I cruised. I went fast, I went slow, the whole bit. After I had logged about 10-12 miles the throttle responsiveness was beginning to return. Maybe partly because I had cleared off some of the heat soak? No idea. But it ran great and idled the same as before. I do think I got it to initiate a relearn process, but only time will tell if it addressed the P2135 code issue. Mine has become so intermittent I'll probably never know, I often go months and months between incidents.
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Old 07-16-2019, 05:06 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich-Tripower...View Post
Well, since I didn't get a response and since I had a few minutes to spare I drove the GTO around until it was warmed up (took about 2 seconds in this weather) and then did the relearn process as outlined above 3/1/3/1/start and drive around. I honestly didn't expect much and I have to say right up front my idle is steady if just a touch higher than it was a year ago (maybe 850 when it used to be 800). Probably something to do with the new tune. Regardless, my only hope is that it does something for the P2135 code situation.

Anyway, I went through the process. When I started it for the last time, it struggled to fire at first, then stumbled and started and idled just fine. No idea if that was due the relearn process starting or because it was 95 degrees out and it had been idling and sitting and heatsoaking for nearly 10 minutes. I then drove around and I do have to say that the throttle seemed rather sluggish, kind of like the pedal to TB mapping had changed to a lower ratio. Anyway, it ran fine and drove fine.

I drove around varying the throttle position a lot in most gears. I did a few WOT bursts in 1st and 2nd. I cruised. I went fast, I went slow, they whole bit. After I had logged about 10-12 miles the throttle responsiveness was beginning to return. Maybe partly because I had cleared off some of the heat soak? No idea. But it ran great and idled the same as before. I do think I got it to initiate a relearn process, but only time will tell if it addressed the P2135 code issue. Mine has become so intermittent I'll probably never know, I often go months and months between incidents.

Sorry, the car isn't a daily and I haven't driven it since I posted last. I'll be taking it out tomorrow and I'll be driving it about 25 miles run errands and whatnot. It's happened 3 times in a row, so I think it's pretty safe to say that it's a consistent problem in my car. If the throttle re-learn does anything, maybe we cracked the case. I'm not holding my breath tho, seeing as I have quite a few other codes coinciding with the P2135. I'll report back tomorrow.
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Old 07-16-2019, 05:58 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by SkiPopeye36...View Post
Iím not aware of anyway to do a throttle relearn in HP Tuners.

i think it's in vcmscanner.

vehicle controls and special functions, airflow tab, "throttle cleaned" button.

i think it just resets the idle learn tables. i suppose it's technically not a "relearn" per say, as the ECM will do that itself over time.
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Old 07-16-2019, 06:04 PM   #17
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If the throttle re-learn does anything, maybe we cracked the case. I'm not holding my breath tho, seeing as I have quite a few other codes coinciding with the P2135. I'll report back tomorrow.

i wouldn't bet on it, it's just one of those "lets cover all the simple basis first" things, so you don't kick yourself for rebuilding your engine when that tapping you heard was a blown exhaust manifold gasket.

if you do have access to hptuners, i would log the PID's for all of the the TPS sensors, both pedal and throttle body. put them through their paces and log the results, you don't need to do it with engine on i don't think. i've had a throttle body take a dump, throw a code, put the engine into safe mode and sent the engine idling at 2000 rpm. new throttle body, no more issues.

Now, the P0606 code REALLY bothers me. i've never even HEARD of someone having a "processor fault" on our cars.

All the same, the circuit is simple. The pedal and the throttle body go to the ECM. So, it's either the pedal, throttle body, wiring, connectors, or the ECM.
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Old 07-17-2019, 08:56 AM   #18
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Dreaded P- 2135

Greeting Guys; Thank you for all the informative posts guys. Rich was asking about my experience with the P-2135 code. So far once, a warm day 55 miles to the Holden Summer Solstice Meet, car sets in sun 4-5 hours Sunday the 7th. Oh I've had it 13 years & have 40K on it. I should mention that Super-man Jeff Bowman did some dash conversion for me 4 weeks ago (Holden logo), & I had him check my wires behind the glove box. They were in perfect condition & were positioned correctly. 90 miles home & 30 additional miles before the trip to the Solstice meet. So on way home I stopped at cemetery 45 miles & had a few words with the folks. Or course a one sided conversation. Start the car it kills, go to re-start & nothing! Pull the key, take a short walk, 5 minutes later I put key in start car drive home. Next day, another car show, 5 miles from home the dreaded "Safe Mode" - Reduced Power! I think I was faster on my bike 30 years ago?? Good buddy has code reader, lends it to me & I get P-2135 Throttle/Pedal Position Sensor/Switch A/B Voltage Correction. I gotta go, more later, Ole' Bob.
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Old 07-17-2019, 12:25 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nothubertjfarnsworth...View Post
i wouldn't bet on it, it's just one of those "lets cover all the simple basis first" things, so you don't kick yourself for rebuilding your engine when that tapping you heard was a blown exhaust manifold gasket.

if you do have access to hptuners, i would log the PID's for all of the the TPS sensors, both pedal and throttle body. put them through their paces and log the results, you don't need to do it with engine on i don't think. i've had a throttle body take a dump, throw a code, put the engine into safe mode and sent the engine idling at 2000 rpm. new throttle body, no more issues.

Now, the P0606 code REALLY bothers me. i've never even HEARD of someone having a "processor fault" on our cars.

All the same, the circuit is simple. The pedal and the throttle body go to the ECM. So, it's either the pedal, throttle body, wiring, connectors, or the ECM.

Sit Rep: Throttle re-learn goes horribly bad.

I went full bore with the reset and disconnected the battery for approx 5mins. Reconnected and did the throttle relearn. Idle was perfect. Pull it out (that's what she said) and not even a half mile and Safe Mode pops. Pull a u-turn and it's bad. Car is barely chugging along. Even with the pedal pinned to the ground it can barely muster going 10MPH. As I pull into my driveway, the car stalls out. Run the codes and thankfully, P0606 isn't one, but now I have completely foreign codes from the last time, except P2135. Codes are:

P1516
P2101
P2135

I wonder if the new pedal has anything to do with it. It ran perfectly with the old pedal and would only go into Safe Mode if I went WOT. I also found this:


Think I'll go thru that tomorrow when it's not so bleeding hot out. Hoping it's just a loose wire going to the TB, but again, I don't think I'm getting that lucky. Seems like these DBW connections are problematic across GM's line-up.
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Old 07-17-2019, 12:40 PM   #20
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It's sounding more like your throttle body.
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Old 07-17-2019, 04:59 PM   #21
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Loose connection to, or a bad MAP sensor will do the same thing.
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Old 07-17-2019, 05:52 PM   #22
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Loose connection to, or a bad MAP sensor will do the same thing.

Wouldn't he get a bad MAF/MAP or TPS/MAP correlation DTC?
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Old 07-17-2019, 06:11 PM   #23
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OP never mentioned his mods, either. That may help.
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Old 07-18-2019, 04:41 AM   #24
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OP never mentioned his mods, either. That may help.

I honestly can't remember if my P2135 issues started before I starting adding modifications or after? I *think* before. I'd have to look up when I bought a new pedal since that was the first fix I tried. I do know it didn't get any better or worse as I added mods. The fact that it shows up so randomly and goes away altogether for many months at a time is very frustrating, that and the fact that I can't intentionally recreate the situation and I've tried many times.
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Old 07-18-2019, 05:15 AM   #25
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I just read something re: reduced power mode happening when dyn cyl air is too high. Not sure if that is hard coded into the ECM or can be changed by upping MAX VE or something like that.
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Old 07-18-2019, 05:56 AM   #26
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I also thought this might be related to the tune since I got a tune very early on. But I've put the stock tune back in at times and it still happened. So, either both my pedals and/or both my throttle bodies have the same issue or it is in the wiring or the ECU. And I'd more strongly suspect the wiring if I could recreate the situation by wiggling the wiring.

I really think I'm going to have the tuner tune out the P2135 when he updates my AC on idle air flow and see how it goes. He can always add it back in if bad things occur.
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Old 07-18-2019, 01:51 PM   #27
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Do any of the terminals on the connector looked discolored?
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Old 07-18-2019, 03:28 PM   #28
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So, did the test like the one in the YouTube video I posted and all the connections are secure. Pulled back the plastic loom some and checked the soldered connections and they're all good as well. Don't see any issues with the wiring being exposed, broken, etc. The actual connectors are all good.

One thing I noticed is that the TB blade is angled quite a bit. Is this normal? I can't remember. It's angled about 20* or so ... is it supposed to be closer to vertical up and down? I dunno, just grasping at straws now. But, I think it could very well be something internal in the TB.

As far as mods, they're pretty extensive. I have a Magnusson supercharger with CAI and LPE MAF. Doubt it's the MAF seeing as it would likely throw a MAF code as well as the others. I did clean it with MAF spray while I had it all apart just to cover all the bases though. Obviously, everything was allowed to try prior to putting it all back together. It was tuned and has ran flawlessly for over 2yrs without any issues or further mods. In that time though, I've only probably racked up 12k miles or so. Absolutely nothing else has been changed on the car in those two years minus fluids, and none of that was recent.
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Old 07-18-2019, 08:01 PM   #29
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The TB blade doesn't rest shut like a cable driven TB does

Depending on how the intake is set up, if the blade hits anything, it will smurf everything up and send you into reduced power mode.
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Old 07-19-2019, 02:41 PM   #30
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I'm following this because I find it interesting. My 02 DBW Tahoe did this after my TVS2300 install. Mine turned out to be the tune. It wasn't able to adjust fast enough to the rapid air flow changes when I gave it anything over half throttle. With yours being fine for 2 years+, I doubt it is the tune.

Have you swapped the MAF with a known good one to see if that does anything?
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