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Old 03-21-2019, 04:25 PM   #1
lejambcr
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VE Table Tuning - MAF Disable?

Just to make sure before I do something really stupid....

I am going to attempt non-WOT VE table tuning tomorrow or this weekend.
Seems like from my research that the only way to disable the MAF in my 2006 is to set all ZERO's in the Hz table, turn off P101,102 and 103 codes and raise the PE limit enough to keep it out of the way while I do some low-mid power logging of both LTFT's and STFT's.

Is there anything I'm missing?

I just realized that since I have the IAT breakout harness maybe I can just unplug the MAF connection?
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Old 03-22-2019, 02:14 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lejambcr...View Post
Just to make sure before I do something really stupid....

I am going to attempt non-WOT VE table tuning tomorrow or this weekend.
Seems like from my research that the only way to disable the MAF in my 2006 is to set all ZERO's in the Hz table, turn off P101,102 and 103 codes and raise the PE limit enough to keep it out of the way while I do some low-mid power logging of both LTFT's and STFT's.

Is there anything I'm missing?

I just realized that since I have the IAT breakout harness maybe I can just unplug the MAF connection?

You do not want to turn off those codes you want them to report on first error. Since I run speed density is set them to report on first error but not turn the sel on for those codes.

Didn't you just pay for a dyno tune? They most likely used a wide band so your fueling should be good.
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Old 03-22-2019, 03:45 AM   #3
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Thanks!
Yes, I just got the dyno tune, but as seems to be the norm not much time gets spent on driveability. WOT tuning was the lions share of the tuners work. I realize that setting up the VE table doesn't do much for closed loop operation but it should make for smoother throttle transients if I understand how the PCM works? Besides that its a fun exercise and if I ever go to SD I'll be ahead of the game.
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Old 03-22-2019, 01:11 PM   #4
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To disable the MAF, you need to go to Engine Diag -> Airflow and set "MAF Frequency Fail High" to 0. After that, you change the DTCs for P0101-P0103 to "MIL on First Error" and uncheck the SES Enable box (or leave it on so that the SES light reminds you to set it back to normal).

The above is for an 04, but the 05-06 should be similar.
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Old 03-22-2019, 03:12 PM   #5
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Perfect, how about DFCO anything need to be done to that for the VE logging?
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Old 03-22-2019, 03:53 PM   #6
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Turn off DFCO, COT and Engine--Airflow--Dynamic--Dynamic airflow, Make high 8000 rpm, low 7900rpm. If you are not using a wideband, turn off the LTFT's and use STFT's to tune with. In your scanner, in channels, remove the Maf channel that you are logging. You don't need to zero out the hz tables for maf. Drive smoothly and hit as many cells as you can.
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Old 03-23-2019, 03:53 AM   #7
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Thanks Lakegoat.
In setting up the VE logging tune I see that my tuner had turned off Dynamic Airflow? Basically just using filtered MAF airflow above 200RPM instead of blending with VE. Is this a common practice with just a mild cam? Or just a shortcut to avoid updating the VE table.

Last edited by lejambcr; 03-23-2019 at 05:47 AM.
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Old 03-23-2019, 09:28 AM   #8
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I'm not sure what you are asking. Normally these cars have Hi Rpm disable at 3600rpm and reenable at 3500rpm. The 8000rpm is so it doesn't try to reference the maf while you are ve tuning.
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Old 03-23-2019, 09:33 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Lakegoat...View Post
I'm not sure what you are asking. Normally these cars have Hi Rpm disable at 3600rpm and reenable at 3500rpm. The 8000rpm is so it doesn't try to reference the maf while you are ve tuning.

I probably wasn't typing clearly LOL....The final tune from my tuner had those values set at 200 and 100 respectively. I think that effectively eliminates the dynamic blended MAF/VE airflow calculations that are usually done by the PCM from idle up to 3600 RPM as you noted. I just don't know why he turned that function off?

P.S. My first VE mapping STFT's were from 5-10% off. This was in the 800-2400 RPM range. I'll be doing another logging session later today to get the STFT's from 2400 to 4000.

Last edited by lejambcr; 03-23-2019 at 09:38 AM.
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Old 03-23-2019, 10:07 AM   #10
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all your tuning adjustments make me worry about taking mine somewhere, ha. ive been watching my stfts jump all around since adding the xair intake
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Old 03-23-2019, 01:19 PM   #11
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The first thing I'll say is that if you want to see STFT's bouncing around you should watch a Vararam. That thing had my MAF doing a nostop dance! It made life a little challenging on my tuners and it ended up with a very non-smooth MAF/frequency/flow curves. I put the XAir on and so far it has been smoothing out all those strange kinks in the MAF curves. I will still have to go back to the dyno to do the WOT adjustments due to the XAir. Unless I take the plunge and buy a Wideband O2 and do it myself. Either way I bet it will be a piece of cake compared to the Vararam.

In fairness to the 2 different tuners I've used in the last 2 month they do a great job tuning WOT and idle and one of them actually had me drive him around in the car while he logged something, presumably he was just working cruise fuel trims. SInce I purchased HP Tuners I downloaded their 2 final tunes and have been comparing them to each other and to the stock tune. Some things they have done are well published on the HP tuner forums, but some things have me scratching my head. What I have been doing over the last couple of weeks is working driveability issues and filling in all the areas of the tune that professional tuners just don't have the time to do. I'll admit I'm somewhat anal about this stuff and I really want to make sure I'm taking full advantage of all the useful powerful features in the PCM.
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Old 03-24-2019, 04:17 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by lejambcr...View Post
The first thing I'll say is that if you want to see STFT's bouncing around you should watch a Vararam. That thing had my MAF doing a nostop dance! It made life a little challenging on my tuners and it ended up with a very non-smooth MAF/frequency/flow curves. I put the XAir on and so far it has been smoothing out all those strange kinks in the MAF curves. I will still have to go back to the dyno to do the WOT adjustments due to the XAir. Unless I take the plunge and buy a Wideband O2 and do it myself. Either way I bet it will be a piece of cake compared to the Vararam.

In fairness to the 2 different tuners I've used in the last 2 month they do a great job tuning WOT and idle and one of them actually had me drive him around in the car while he logged something, presumably he was just working cruise fuel trims. SInce I purchased HP Tuners I downloaded their 2 final tunes and have been comparing them to each other and to the stock tune. Some things they have done are well published on the HP tuner forums, but some things have me scratching my head. What I have been doing over the last couple of weeks is working driveability issues and filling in all the areas of the tune that professional tuners just don't have the time to do. I'll admit I'm somewhat anal about this stuff and I really want to make sure I'm taking full advantage of all the useful powerful features in the PCM.

since mine doesnt have a cam its probably not as big of a deal on the driveability at least. just wouldnt mind getting it a little more dialed in on the fueling
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Old 03-24-2019, 08:26 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by lejambcr...View Post
I probably wasn't typing clearly LOL....The final tune from my tuner had those values set at 200 and 100 respectively. I think that effectively eliminates the dynamic blended MAF/VE airflow calculations that are usually done by the PCM from idle up to 3600 RPM as you noted. I just don't know why he turned that function off?

P.S. My first VE mapping STFT's were from 5-10% off. This was in the 800-2400 RPM range. I'll be doing another logging session later today to get the STFT's from 2400 to 4000.

He had it set up as a maf only tune instead of a blended tune. The 3600 number means it is in blended mode (maf and ve) until 3600 rpm and then it switches to maf only after 3600. If you want to tune your ve so it runs correctly on maf or ve table, use the 8000 number so it never goes to maf while you are tuning the ve table. Then you can go back to blended after you finish tuning the ve. 5% variance in the ve table is not bad. Make sure when you write calibration and start the scanner that you turn the key on, open scanner, special functions and clear fuel trims. Otherwise you will be chasing your tail on fueling. After a tune change drive around a few minutes to make sure everything is cleared before you start logging. Drive smooth.
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Old 03-24-2019, 08:36 AM   #14
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Lakegoat, basically followed what you said except I've been in the habit of pulling the negative battery cable to clear everything and I've been logging with LTFT's off anyway. Finished up the 2400-4000 VE logging late yesterday and had a few cells over 10% lean. Really tough to get logging Hits above 75kPa. The car just accelerates thru those cells way too fast. I need to find some long steep hills...LOL
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Old 03-24-2019, 09:00 AM   #15
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hold it in 2nd gear and ride the brake to hit the cells. Are you mashing the gas to the floor? Supposed to be smooth slow acceleration. If you don't shut off the scanner before you let off the gas, you will get some lean spikes. Just smooth them out with the hand smooth function.
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Old 03-24-2019, 09:11 AM   #16
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No, not mashing to the floor, trying to be very slow and deliberate with the throttle and glancing at the hit histogram while logging. Been doing only accel runs to hit the cells and holding the throttle at the manifold pressure I'm targeting. Basically I start at an RPM say 1200, then depress the pedal to hit a manifold pressure, 60kPa for example and then let it take data while accelerating at a constant throttle setting. Doesn't take long for the car to accelerate thru the cell so I just hold the throttle and let it take data at the next highest RPM too and so on up the scale. Thought about using the brakes......
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Old 03-24-2019, 09:14 AM   #17
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Ok, Sounds good
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Old 05-10-2019, 05:26 AM   #18
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Bumping your thread, since i just loaded up hptuners on my car to find out it has been tuned. The comment section says its a speed density tune.

My dynamic airflow is set to 100 and 0. So its always in MAF? Doesnt that counter the description of the tune? Lol.

LTFTs are disabled with 284ect temp setting.

Power enrichment is set to 0, so always looking in the eq ratio table?


Anyone have recommendations on dual widebands? I would prefer a single display gauge.
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Old 05-10-2019, 06:38 AM   #19
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Are you using HP Tuners? Wideband or LTFT's? I have a couple pointers as I dyno tune my own car.

Using a wideband will yield the best results, look around for shops that rent dyno time. I rented 2 hours for $150 and got the bottom end dialled in first and worried about WOT later but was able to do all of it in two hours. The higher the gear the more MAP you'll be able to achieve under load, I can send the set up for the AFR Err VE/SD table if you like. Just PM me
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Old 05-10-2019, 07:36 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Hook937...View Post
Are you using HP Tuners? Wideband or LTFT's? I have a couple pointers as I dyno tune my own car.

Using a wideband will yield the best results, look around for shops that rent dyno time. I rented 2 hours for $150 and got the bottom end dialled in first and worried about WOT later but was able to do all of it in two hours. The higher the gear the more MAP you'll be able to achieve under load, I can send the set up for the AFR Err VE/SD table if you like. Just PM me

Yes hptuners. I uploaded the tune from the ecu. It was not the stock tune.

I dont have a wideband yet, thinking aem x series and get two since my midpipes have cats and ill need to place them in front of those.

LTFTs are disabled in my current tune. No idea who tuned it previously.
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Old 05-10-2019, 08:55 AM   #21
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I installed the AEM 30-0300 x-series single wideband about a month ago. Works like a charm. I pulled the right side header to install the extra bung. Also installed the Bohnman's A-pillar gauge POD and thats where I mounted the gauge. But you really never need to look at the gauge. The OBD plug that they include in the gauge kit sends the AFR signal right to HP tuners. You need to buy HP tuners pro if you want to read 2 AFR simultaneously. If you really want the 2nd Wideband I would just install a second bung on the other side and move the sensor when you want to check the other bank of cylinders.

Also, if you would like pictures of the bung installation my car is up on the ramps right now and can take whatever shots you would find helpful.

Last edited by lejambcr; 05-10-2019 at 09:03 AM.
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Old 05-10-2019, 10:08 AM   #22
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I installed the AEM 30-0300 x-series single wideband about a month ago. Works like a charm. I pulled the right side header to install the extra bung. Also installed the Bohnman's A-pillar gauge POD and thats where I mounted the gauge. But you really never need to look at the gauge. The OBD plug that they include in the gauge kit sends the AFR signal right to HP tuners. You need to buy HP tuners pro if you want to read 2 AFR simultaneously. If you really want the 2nd Wideband I would just install a second bung on the other side and move the sensor when you want to check the other bank of cylinders.

Also, if you would like pictures of the bung installation my car is up on the ramps right now and can take whatever shots you would find helpful.

ah so just tuning off one bank is acceptable? thats fine with me i suppose.


sure id appreciate a picture of the bung.

i havent decided what i want to do gauge location yet.
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Old 05-10-2019, 10:21 AM   #23
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My dyno tuner only had the sniffer in one tail pipe anyway so I guess I'd have to say yes to the single bank tuning question..picture coming shortly.
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Old 05-10-2019, 10:46 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by lejambcr...View Post
My dyno tuner only had the sniffer in one tail pipe anyway so I guess I'd have to say yes to the single bank tuning question..picture coming shortly.

Thanks! Good thing i have a small mig welder so it should be easy enough to tackle.

Am i correct in thinking that my tune is MAF only like yours was? Since the dynamics are 100 and 0 respectively. I thought the whole point of speed density was to remove the MAF from the equation.

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Old 05-10-2019, 12:26 PM   #25
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My factory tune was dynamic (blended), meaning under 3600 RPM it was a combo of MAF and VE. My dyno tuner disabled the VE blending and made it MAF only. I have since gone back to dynamic under 3000 RPM after doing some low speed VE tuning. I think the low speed blended tune make throttle response a little crisper driving around town. I can post my factory tune if it would help you. But I don't recommend just simply loading someone elses factory tune, I have heard horror stories about doing that but you can use it as a compare file in HP tuners and create your own factory by undoing all the changes in your current tune to make it back into a factory tune.

Also, the O2 bung that comes with the AEM gauge system is galvanized, which I think means its tough to weld using TIG so your MIG welder should work fine.

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Old 05-10-2019, 03:54 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by lejambcr...View Post
My factory tune was dynamic (blended), meaning under 3600 RPM it was a combo of MAF and VE. My dyno tuner disabled the VE blending and made it MAF only. I have since gone back to dynamic under 3000 RPM after doing some low speed VE tuning. I think the low speed blended tune make throttle response a little crisper driving around town. I can post my factory tune if it would help you. But I don't recommend just simply loading someone elses factory tune, I have heard horror stories about doing that but you can use it as a compare file in HP tuners and create your own factory by undoing all the changes in your current tune to make it back into a factory tune.

Also, the O2 bung that comes with the AEM gauge system is galvanized, which I think means its tough to weld using TIG so your MIG welder should work fine.

I found a stock tune on hptuners forum so i do have something to compare already.

Confused why this tune was labeled speed density when its set up to only run on MAF.. speed density is supposed to eliminate the MAF.

Ordered the wideband so once it gets here ill start working back to a true speed density not this MAF only tune.

Last edited by Sacrifice; 05-10-2019 at 03:58 PM.
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Old 05-10-2019, 04:44 PM   #27
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You can do a lot of SD/VE tuning at non-WOT without the Widebands in the meantime. I disabled the MAF in the tune and that will force the ECM to set initial fueling using the existing VE table. Also disabled LTFT's and then as you log the histogram table for STFT you can apply those percentage adjustments to the existing VE table. I'd say that I tweaked at least 50% of the VE table before I installed the wideband sensor.
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Old 05-11-2019, 07:10 PM   #28
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You can do a lot of SD/VE tuning at non-WOT without the Widebands in the meantime. I disabled the MAF in the tune and that will force the ECM to set initial fueling using the existing VE table. Also disabled LTFT's and then as you log the histogram table for STFT you can apply those percentage adjustments to the existing VE table. I'd say that I tweaked at least 50% of the VE table before I installed the wideband sensor.

Was your ve table close after installing the wideband and verifying?

I think im going to return my tune back to stock settings to have a fresh data point. It runs fine now, i just think theres more to be gained

Didnt realize anybody purposefully went MAF only on these motors.
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Old 05-12-2019, 03:48 AM   #29
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I'd say they were pretty close, 2-3% in the low power ranges. The wideband identified the most significant changes at the higher powers as you would have expected. WOT changed about 5-10% but that was relative to the stock table because the narrowbands are useless once PE kicks in. That is the range where the cam,headers,intake manifold and CAI had most of their impact.
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Old 05-12-2019, 03:32 PM   #30
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I'd say they were pretty close, 2-3% in the low power ranges. The wideband identified the most significant changes at the higher powers as you would have expected. WOT changed about 5-10% but that was relative to the stock table because the narrowbands are useless once PE kicks in. That is the range where the cam,headers,intake manifold and CAI had most of their impact.

alright. wideband will be here this week so it isnt a big deal.

there isnt any reason to change back MAF frequencies are there? those should be ok to leave since it supports the maf only tune? ideally we want both to be tuned in anyways to run a true blended.

the only things im changing back to stock settings are enabling LTFTs, dynamic airflow points, p0101/p0106/p0121 temp enable,p068 temp enable, power enrichment rpm. These should be fine arent they? i want to see how it drives blended first..

Edit: i changed those settings to enable the ve table again and wow it pulls a lot harder. way more aggressive than it was previously.

heres my original tune i uploaded from the ECM

https://drive.google.com/open?id=15u...88kctVF2TMOXei

Last edited by Sacrifice; 05-12-2019 at 04:56 PM.
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