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Old 04-23-2019, 04:58 PM   #1
ikillforwork
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Boost options

Just bought an 04 A4 Gto it's making 405rwhp with these mods. Is it safe to say I can change the fuel system to support E85 and run a procharger or is there a better direction to go to get more to the ground?

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Old 04-23-2019, 06:52 PM   #2
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I think the safest bet is that 4L60 will die. The next safest bet is that yes, you could add a fuel hat or a different fuel setup to run E85 with a procharger. However, those milled heads+increased compression mean you probably want to keep your boost numbers lower.
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Old 04-23-2019, 07:09 PM   #3
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IMO I would sell the prc heads and get some rego 243/799 heads with decent springs. 10.5-1 compression like that.. use the extra coin for a meth kit or e85... maybe run a thicker head gasket? that should lower compression a bit also... and some head studs... hopefully you got the rear end situated with drag bags, or anti hop gear
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Old 04-24-2019, 12:59 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Audacious Nick...View Post
I think the safest bet is that 4L60 will die. The next safest bet is that yes, you could add a fuel hat or a different fuel setup to run E85 with a procharger. However, those milled heads+increased compression mean you probably want to keep your boost numbers lower.

Many people run 11 to1 compression with E85 and lots of boost. I've had built 4l60e's behind a stroker with nitrous as well as a procharger in my current car with no problems. Just depends who built it and what parts are in it.
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Old 04-24-2019, 10:04 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hadagto...View Post
I've had built 4l60e's behind a stroker with nitrous as well as a procharger in my current car with no problems. Just depends who built it and what parts are in it.


THIS. if the guy building it does not know what they are doing, it wont hold up in a stock application. The 4L60 HAS A BAD WRAP because:

1) builder is incompetent
2) tuner is incompetent
3) wrong parts or cheap parts
4) driver abuse

I've seen a "end all, be all" turbo 400 fail in a car quicker than the 4l60 he had replaced it with.I didnt just read about it, It was a friend of mine.
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Old 04-24-2019, 02:10 PM   #6
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Get a real trans. Buy an F1. Get a real fuel system. Wire in a sensor if your afraid of driving it and get some e85 and send it.
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Old 04-24-2019, 02:16 PM   #7
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Boost options

I wouldnt have put this money into it personally if I planned to boost it. He offered as a trade for something I had so this is how I received it. Just exploring option that will use most of the current setup

Last edited by ikillforwork; 04-24-2019 at 02:19 PM.
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Old 04-24-2019, 02:21 PM   #8
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PO installed a Rhino 4l60e I dont know anything about their quality. E85 with 220cc injectors is in the works. Next 4l80 I come across as a core I'll rebuild it and swap.

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Old 04-24-2019, 03:00 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ikillforwork...View Post
PO installed a Rhino 4l60e I dont know anything about their quality. E85 with 220cc injectors is in the works. Next 4l80 I come across as a core I'll rebuild it and swap.

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I’m sure you mean 220 lb/hr injectors not 220 cc. How much power are you looking to make?
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Old 04-26-2019, 05:41 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by hadagto...View Post
Iím sure you mean 220 lb/hr injectors not 220 cc. How much power are you looking to make?

Not sure what number HP I'm looking to get but I'd love to crack the 6s in 1/8 mile (local track length)

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Old 04-26-2019, 06:18 PM   #11
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~600 rwhp will get you in the high 6's low 7's
Basically equivalent to 11 flat in the 1/4.
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Old 04-26-2019, 06:33 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by lejambcr...View Post
~600 rwhp will get you in the high 6's low 7's
Basically equivalent to 11 flat in the 1/4.

Sounds good. I'm at 405 at the wheels now. And ran 7.8s leaving off idle not on the converter. Need to work with what I have to get there would love to boost it

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Old 04-26-2019, 06:48 PM   #13
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7-9 psi and a big intercooler
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Old 04-27-2019, 07:01 AM   #14
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For a goal of 6's I'd keep what you have and throw a D1x procharger on it with a new fuel system to support you power level on E85. I wouldn't worry about the trans unless it starts giving you problems. A built 4l60e can easily handle 600 rwhp.
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Old 04-27-2019, 01:45 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ikillforwork...View Post
Is it safe to say I can change the fuel system to support E85 and run a procharger or is there a better direction to go to get more to the ground?

DISCLAIMER: I am NOT a mechanic, just a mild enthusiast. I'm sure those with more knowledge and experience will rip me a new one if the thoughts I express deviate from conventional wisdom.

My immediate concerns would be your cam and injectors.

CAM
The LSA is probably great for NA but may need to be increased for FI. By way of comparison, mine is 114. That was my builder's recommendation, but my power goals were different from yours. So it might be that 112 is just fine for you. Worth researching, though, right?

In addition to the LSA, the exhaust duration may need to be upped as well. With the increased pressure from the supercharger, 228 is about as long as you want the intake open. The exhaust, on the other hand, may need a little more time to evacuate the cylinder. Whether that's 236 or 238 or 240 (etc.), I don't know. Again, for comparison, mine is 243.

INJECTORS
I think they will struggle to keep-up with your fuel requirements. I'm guessing you'll need somewhere in the vicinity of 70-80 lbs/hr. Speaking of fuel...

I didn't see an upgraded fuel pump or booster pump in your list of mods. You are probably including that in your fuel system upgrade, but I'll state it just in case: You DEFINITELY want a bigger pump--bigger than your upgrades will require. Running lean under boost is a recipe for disaster, to be sure. But even if you maintain perfect AFRs, we all know that you will want even more power at some point down the road. You don't want to pull that gas tank twice!

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Old 04-27-2019, 03:34 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aphobos...View Post
DISCLAIMER: I am NOT a mechanic, just a mild enthusiast. I'm sure those with more knowledge and experience will rip me a new one if the thoughts I express deviate from conventional wisdom.

My immediate concerns would be your cam and injectors.

CAM
The LSA is probably great for NA but may need to be increased for FI. By way of comparison, mine is 114. That was my builder's recommendation, but my power goals were different from yours. So it might be that 112 is just fine for you. Worth researching, though, right?

In addition to the LSA, the exhaust duration may need to be upped as well. With the increased pressure from the supercharger, 228 is about as long as you want the intake open. The exhaust, on the other hand, may need a little more time to evacuate the cylinder. Whether that's 236 or 238 or 240 (etc.), I don't know. Again, for comparison, mine is 243.

INJECTORS
I think they will struggle to keep-up with your fuel requirements. I'm guessing you'll need somewhere in the vicinity of 70-80 lbs/hr. Speaking of fuel...

I didn't see an upgraded fuel pump or booster pump in your list of mods. You are probably including that in your fuel system upgrade, but I'll state it just in case: You DEFINITELY want a bigger pump--bigger than your upgrades will require. Running lean under boost is a recipe for disaster, to be sure. But even if you maintain perfect AFRs, we all know that you will want even more power at some point down the road. You don't want to pull that gas tank twice!

Regards,
Aphobos


You aren't wrong at all. A centrifugal supercharger with a goal of 600-650 rwhp to run 6's in the 1/8th will work fine with everything he has though. I use a 228r on a 112 lsa without issue. Am I squeezing every ounce of power out of it with this cam versus a cam spec'd specifically for my setup...no.

His setup may not be perfect for a max effort build, but for 600-650 rwhp and 6's in the 1/8th...slap a D1x on it and a complete E85 capable fuel system with a good tune and make that power level easily. No need for the extra expense of changing heads and cam to make that power level.
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Old 04-29-2019, 11:16 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by lejambcr...View Post
7-9 psi and a big intercooler

this is about spot on. Leaving very easy, 1.7 60ft, 7-8 psi i ran 11.20.

Last edited by Kfxguy; 04-29-2019 at 11:20 AM.
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Old 04-29-2019, 11:21 AM   #18
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btw, 7.20 in the 1/8 not even trying.
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Old 04-29-2019, 11:22 AM   #19
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this is about spot on. Leaving very easy, 1.7 60ft, 7-8 psi i ran 11.20.

That is leaving easy. Im 1.7 60ft leaving off idle now.

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Old 04-29-2019, 11:56 AM   #20
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Track prep certainly matters. I've been 6.58, but last trip I went 7.31 spinning like crazy. Aborted the first run because I spun so bad it hit the limiter almost immediately. It was opening day after a long winter. The track hooks better during no prep then a regular day because everyone brings their own prep...LOL.
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Old 04-29-2019, 11:58 AM   #21
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Track prep certainly matters. I've been 6.58, but last trip I went 7.31 spinning like crazy. Aborted the first run because I spun so bad it hit the limiter almost immediately. It was opening day after a long winter. The track hooks better during no prep then a regular day because everyone brings their own prep...LOL.

I'm lucky to had one of the countries best 1/8 mile strips 10 miles from my house. Heated surface works great in the winter.

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Old 04-29-2019, 12:01 PM   #22
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I'm lucky to had one of the countries best 1/8 mile strips 10 miles from my house. Heated surface works great in the winter.

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No kidding? Where are you located?
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Old 04-29-2019, 12:01 PM   #23
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No kidding? Where are you located?

I'm in Benson, NC. Galot motorsports is the track name.

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Old 04-29-2019, 12:14 PM   #24
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I'm in Benson, NC. Galot motorsports is the track name.

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LOL...North Carolina? Do you even have winters? That would be pretty cool though running in cooler temps with a heated strip for traction. Here the strip is closed 6 months of the year and when it is open it's likely over 2000 DA and poorly prepped. Close to home only 5 minutes or so away. The track that is 2 hours away will typically give you 2-3 tenths improvement with no other changes and same DA.
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Old 04-29-2019, 12:18 PM   #25
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LOL...North Carolina? Do you even have winters? That would be pretty cool though running in cooler temps with a heated strip for traction. Here the strip is closed 6 months of the year and when it is open it's likely over 2000 DA and poorly prepped. Close to home only 5 minutes or so away. The track that is 2 hours away will typically give you 2-3 tenths improvement with no other changes and same DA.

Seems ridiculous I know lol. The track has been around for ages and changed ownership 5 years ago and they completely redone the entire place. 6 months a year closed I'm not sure I would know what to do.

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Old 04-29-2019, 12:27 PM   #26
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Benson !! I live about 10 miles north and am planning to hit one of the test and tune nights in May. Sure would be cool to meet up and talk some GTO trash in between runs.
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Old 04-29-2019, 12:35 PM   #27
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Seems ridiculous I know lol. The track has been around for ages and changed ownership 5 years ago and they completely redone the entire place. 6 months a year closed I'm not sure I would know what to do.

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When possible we all do our major car projects during the winter. Here is a cell phone video of my first pass of the year. Video starts after the burnout was already started. Been 6 months since I made a pass so when the rpms jumped up to 6000 rpm a lifted a bit to let it shift to 2nd, but let the rpms get to low. When I don't keep the rpms up high enough the car will go sideways during the burnout so when that happened I let off the brake and rolled out of it. Blah, blah, excuses LOL...small burnout and non-prepped track on opening day equals major spin. Second pass a babied it out and was spinning in 2nd gear ran 1.8x 60' and 7.31 ugh. Several major oil downs repeated breakages so I only got 2 passes and called it a day. Going to install coilovers on the front to help with weight transfer and change to a Mickey Thompson Street R tire.

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Old 04-30-2019, 05:31 AM   #28
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That is leaving easy. Im 1.7 60ft leaving off idle now.

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i was trying not to break anything, but i still managed to destroy the output shaft on the fourth pass.
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Old 05-05-2019, 02:57 PM   #29
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My engine:

421 cubes. Brodix BR7 STS heads. 11.5:1 compression.
E85
Whipple 2.9L blower that hits 18,000rpm rotor speed at 7,000 crank rpm. 12psi on the boost.

I run at 84% duty cycle with ID 1300 injectors.
IAT's that hover around 100 degrees. Some hard tugs will get em into the 130's for a few minutes, but they drop right back.

4300lb car now that its an iron block, 4L80 trans, G Force 9" rear end, and a 100 other pounds worth of various things on it now.

Low 6's in the 8th and it's never pinged or rattled once. E85 loves compression and it loves timing. Squeeze the shit, you won't regret it.

Seriously.

I run just a "red one" north of stoich down the FW, 1.02Lambda. Under PE I'm at .8.
For timing I just kept watching MPH on time slips. Add 2* per pass until the mph flattens out.

Poof, your done. Easy. Back it off a few degrees in the meat of the torque curve. Your biggest headache will be getting it to idle. If your tuner tries to tell you that he has to "port" your IAC or drill hole(s) into your throttle body, gather your shit and leave. He's not doing it right.

I can promise you that.

I don't know everything, but I do know (now) what works for boosted 2004's.

Happy to help.
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