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Old 06-07-2019, 08:36 PM   #1
Rich-Tripower
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Which axle bits to replace?

As I've been mulling over if I should spend some pending bonus pay on some additional GTO mods, I've run into dead ends of what I may want to do power wise, at least for now. And as there has always been a slight clunk in the rear end, I'm thinking funds might be more well spent on axle bits and some inner stub bearings in the differential. The diff has never had any gear or bearing noise, but the inner stubs are getting just slightly loose in their holes and they clunk just a bit when driving slow so I was thinking stubs and axles and do the inner stub bearings while I was at it. Gotta find someone local who could do the bearings and not jack up the diff set up though. Still looking but there are a few prospects.

Tonight I was looking at DSS and G-Force axle bits. I really don't expect I'll ever get too deep into the plus 400hp range so the basic stubs and axles would be just fine for me I suppose. Which brand are considered the superior ones? The prices aren't that far apart to have that be a determining factor, though I'd prefer to do business with Kollar if I can and Andy sells DSS stuff. But G-Force has a killer warranty.

Also, I was looking in the shop manual about component replacement and GEEZ is it a job to replace the wheel stubs! Would I be silly to just replace the inner stubs and axles? The wheel stubs and bearings are very solid, no noises, move smoothly and are snug, no wiggles. But are the wheel stubs the weaker or stronger link in the axle assembly? I actually doubt I'll be threatening to damage even stock components at my power level, but I'd hate to spend some serious money and leave a weakest link in the mix. The OEM axles are pretty solid too, no play, no noises. Maybe just new inner stubs and bearings? Wouldn't mind having some anti-hop axles. Never had a lot of wheel hop in this car, but it never hurts to eliminate any and all of it if you can.

There is also a random thought of getting a set of drag radials to better my track times and having a more robust axle set up would seem to be smart preparation for more traction.

TIA
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Last edited by Rich-Tripower; 06-08-2019 at 05:00 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 06-07-2019, 08:48 PM   #2
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Also, I was poking around online and had no luck finding the inner stub bearings. Anyone have a part number or a source? Only want quality stuff.
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Old 06-08-2019, 01:31 PM   #3
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Anyone?
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Old 06-08-2019, 04:16 PM   #4
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Here's what I'm doing:
Since I bought my 06 back in September with only 31K on the clock I have not been happy with the drivetrain. Too much clunking and some whining. After pumping up the motor a little I added a beefy clutch package. Then I installed the one piece carbon fiber driveshaft. Solid unit, quiet and dumped a ton of weight but not cheap. Still the same noise in the drivetrain. Next was the anti-wheel hop axles, very beefy units and totally eliminated wheel hop. Still had the drivetrain noises....Next was the inner stub upgrade. Nice looking parts but they seem to be loose in the differential and I still have drivetrain noise. Not sure if the diff bearings are shot or the stubs are mis-machined but as a result I bought another set of inner stubs from another manufacturer. Currently I'm building up a new diff with 3.91 gears and a Kaaz LSD. Of course all new bearings and seals, inner stub bearings come in the Master rebuild kit. When I do the swap I will measure all the axle stubs, OEM, brand x and brand y and the ones with the best bearing surface diameter and hub spline fits will go into the new diff. I also have sloppy outer stubs. No radial slop, all rotational. Not sure how much rotational play they are supposed to have but I am going to dig into those after the diff is installed. I agree, the service manual suggests that outer stub/hub and bearing system is a bitch to replace. Finally after the outer stubs are done I'm going to remove my stock T56 and install a wide ratio Magnum 3.5. I hate the 5th gear ratio in the stock tranny. Its useless, hardly any RPM drop when shifting up from 4th and way too much drop when shifting into 6th. The Magnum gear spacing is much better and the 6th gear ratio is slightly more overdrive, just enough to recover the cruise RPM increase due to the 3.91 gears. Why am I spending all this $$$$$ ? Because my final step is a set of slicks and a Procharger...then it'll be back to the clutch again LOL, this will never stop!
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Last edited by lejambcr; 06-08-2019 at 05:00 PM.
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Old 06-08-2019, 04:57 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lejambcr...View Post
Here's what I'm doing:
Since I bought my 06 back in September with only 31K on the clock I have not been happy with the drivetrain. Too much clunking and some whining. After pumping up the motor a little I added a beefy clutch package. Then I installed the one piece carbon fiber driveshaft. Solid unit, quiet and dumped a ton of weight but not cheap. Still the same noise in the drivetrain. Next was the anti-wheel hop axles, very beefy units and totally eliminated wheel hop. Still had the drivetrain noises....Next was the inner stub upgrade. Nice looking parts but they seem to be loose in the differential and I still have drivetrain noise. Not sure if the diff bearings are shot or the stubs are mis-machined but as a result I bought another set of inner stubs from another manufacturer. Currently I'm building up a new diff with 3.91 gears and a Kaaz LSD. Of course all new bearings and seals, inner stub bearings come in the Master rebuild kit. When I do the swap I will measure all the axle stubs, OEM, brand x and brand y and the ones with the best bearing surface diameter and hub spline fits will go into the new diff. I also have sloppy outer stubs. No radial slop, all rotational. Not sure how much rotational play they are supposed to have but I am going to dig into those after the diff is installed. I agree, the service manual suggests that outer stub/hub and bearing system is a bitch to replace. Finally after the outer stubs are done I'm going to remove my stock T56 and install a Magnum 3.5. I hate the 5th gear ratio in the stock tranny. Its useless, hardly any RPM drop when shifting up from 4th and way too much drop when shifting into 6th. The Magnum gear spacing is much better and the 6th gear ratio is slightly more overdrive, just enough to recover the cruise RPM increase due to the 3.91 gears. Why am I spending all this $$$$$ ? Because my final step is a set of slicks and a Procharger...then it'll be back to the clutch again LOL, this will never stop!

I've heard that one brand of inner stubs have been known at times to be a bit small in the shaft diameter. I would be very interested in you measurements of the OEM vs. brand X vs. brand Y.

I guess another meaningful question is: how much play of the inner stubs in their bearings is acceptable? Maybe my OEM stuff is not really worn, just factory original loose?

I do like the idea of the GForce side adjusters with larger needle bearings though.

Something nagging me at the back of my mind though is: is there more trouble inside the differential? The clunking sound has been with the car since I bought it in 2010 with just under 27k on it and has never gotten worse, but is pretty much always there. It just turned 45k recently. I've had Torco RGO and F modifier in it since 2012 and even changed it once since then. Never any gear clash or whining or whirring. The sounds became more noticable once the Harrop cover went on but I suppose that makes sense as it more firmly mounts the differential to the subframe and subframe is also mounted on poly. It wasn't worse, just more noticeable.
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Old 06-08-2019, 05:03 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich-Tripower...View Post
I've heard that one brand of inner stubs have been known at times to be a bit small in the shaft diameter. I would be very interested in you measurements of the OEM vs. brand X vs. brand Y.

I will share the results with you, but to be fair I will share them with the manufacturer first to see if they can make good on the warranty if there is indeed a problem.

Forgot to mention that I have purchased the GForce side adjusters too. I might end up with a Frankenstein differential but it will be tight and strong.

Last edited by lejambcr; 06-08-2019 at 05:43 PM.
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Old 06-08-2019, 05:15 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich-Tripower...View Post

Something nagging me at the back of my mind though is: is there more trouble inside the differential? The clunking sound has been with the car since I bought it in 2010 with just under 27k on it and has never gotten worse, but is pretty much always there. It just turned 45k recently. I've had Torco RGO and F modifier in it since 2012 and even changed it once since then. Never any gear clash or whining or whirring. The sounds became more noticable once the Harrop cover went on but I suppose that makes sense as it more firmly mounts the differential to the subframe and subframe is also mounted on poly. It wasn't worse, just more noticeable.

I think my clunking could be due to any one of the following 4:
1. too much differential gear backlash
2. Harsh LSD release and engagement exaggerated by worn out LSD side and pinion gears
3. too much slop in the tranny gears
4. Outer stubs loose fitting in the hubs

Last edited by lejambcr; 06-08-2019 at 05:23 PM.
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Old 06-08-2019, 05:39 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lejambcr...View Post
I think my clunking could be due to any one of the following 4:
1. too much differential gear backlash
2. Harsh LSD release and engagement exaggerated by worn out LSD side and pinion gears
3. too much slop in the tranny gears
4. Outer stubs loose fitting in the hubs

That list makes sense, I just wish I knew what the source of my clunking was so I could act accordingly without doing more or less than I need to. I REALLY hate throwing parts at a problem and not really resolving it. I *think* my problem is loose stubs, but could that be a symptom of something greater going on?

I have a spare differential mileage unknown and it too has a bit of slop in the stubs. But upon looking inside this diff and on the occasions I've had to peek inside the diff in the car, I never found any obvious issues of undue wear or anything being loose. But then if anything was loose enough to notice, there would be a whole lot more noise coming from it in use I'd think. Rear axles are just not my strong suit.
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Old 06-08-2019, 05:43 PM   #9
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One probably stupid question, but in looking how things go together in this diff, if you install new side adjusters do you have to remove the diff bearing races from the old ones and install in the new ones? I see an option to have bearing races installed in the new adjusters, but I thought it was never a good idea to have a used bearing run on a new race, that it should always be new bearing = new race, old bearing = old race (assuming the old bearing and race are serviceable).
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Old 06-08-2019, 05:58 PM   #10
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I ordered the adjusters with all new bearings and seals installed. I sure hope they come with the new cones to be installed on the LSD unit! Because you should never install old cones in new races or vice versa and there is no guarantee that even new cones and races from different manufacturers will play nicely together either.
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Old 06-08-2019, 06:06 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lejambcr...View Post
I ordered the adjusters with all new bearings and seals installed. I sure hope they come with the new cones to be installed on the LSD unit! Because you should never install old cones in new races or vice versa and there is no guarantee that even new cones and races from different manufacturers will play nicely together either.

That was my thought as well.

Also, on my car the driveshaft and carrier bearing are original, I am now wondering if the carrier bearing is part or all of the clunking issue.
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Old 06-08-2019, 06:13 PM   #12
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Well, that was my simple reasoning for immediately installing the 1-piece driveshaft, plus the weight reduction of course, but in my case it didn't change the clunking noises. It's always a possibility that noisy drivetrains are just the price you pay for having independent rear suspension.
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Old 06-08-2019, 06:42 PM   #13
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Yeah, I'm probably grasping at straws and the sound is definitely at the rear. I've inspected the carrier bearing numerous times now that I think about it. Well, if I'm under there again anytime soon I'll give it another peek.
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Old 06-09-2019, 07:55 AM   #14
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in my experience, if you drag race, you need to upgrade everything. inner and outer stubs and axles.

if you just piddle around on the street, simply doing the GForce1320 CV joint upgrade is generally enough.

as far as the driveshaft goes, replace with 1pc if drag racing, changing out the carrier bearing and maybe even the guibos if they are torn is enough for the street.
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Old 06-09-2019, 06:48 PM   #15
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I've been thinking about replacing the side adjusters and doing inner stubs. The GForce side adjusters have larger needle bearing sets which I think would have to be a bonus.

Anyway, I've been looking for someone to do this work for me as rear end set up is just something that has always intimidated me. But, I was thinking about all this and it really can't be that hard. Here is what I was thinking about how to get new adjusters in without jacking up the differential settings:

1. measure the ring gear/pinion backlash
2. remove one old adjuster only
3. transfer the differential bearing race to the new adjuster (I'd buy adjusters with the needle bearings and seals already installed)
4. install the new adjuster until the original backlash is achieved
5. remove the other old adjuster and repeat above until the original backlash is achieved

I do have a dial indicator and magnetic base so doing the measurements wouldn't be hard though I guess I'd have to pull the rear cover to get an accurate backlash reading as it is measured off of the ring gear teeth, right? I'd have to devise a way to lock the pinion down though. I wish I had a lift.

What is the proper backlash range? I guess I should know that going in so if it is out of spec I can correct it or is that just asking for gear trouble as they are quiet now and well broken in at 45K miles?
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Old 06-09-2019, 06:55 PM   #16
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it should say the backlash spec on the side of the ring gear. it's worn at this point, though, so measure before taking it apart. it should still be close to that value, though.
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Old 06-09-2019, 06:59 PM   #17
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Your method should get you close in backlash but you need to worry about preload on the carrier bearings too. I've done a fair amount of research.....reading sticky's and any post I could get my eyes on. There seems to be some difference of opinion but here is my take away that I will be using on my diff.

1. Backlash .007 to .012" I'm going to target .008"
2. Bearing preload.... measure your pinion rotational torque before you take it apart and add 2-5 inch pounds if you are not changing bearings. I you are doing new bearings you want 15-20 inch pounds of rotational torque on the pinion. Then when you load the carrier you want to simultaneously get your backlash to .008" and the total system rotational torque to 25-35 inch pounds.

Make sense?

Last edited by lejambcr; 06-09-2019 at 07:21 PM.
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