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Gone but not forgotten
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4,672 Posts
i have not ever used one, so i dont have any first hand experience. im only speaking from what ive read and my car knowledge.
its probably not gonna gain you much power, if any at all. i think it is just a way to ensure that your engine isn't knocking under extreme conditions and that you are getting the most out of your mods.
personally speaking, i wouldn't install one b/c i dont think its gonna do all that much and im not gonna go extreme w/ mods. maybe intake, exhaust, tune, headers down the road.
but blitzu would be the one to ask b/c he is an extreme modder and he is getting one.
 

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Retired LEO meow
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14,535 Posts
Does the Predator tune affect whether you should change the stock thermostat to the 160 degree one?
 

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Yes, it has a car seat
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1,884 Posts
I think this is one of the best mods to do for the cheapest amount of money... honestly. Heat is the enemy, and keeping the engine cool is a must.

I'm not arguing the worthiness of the mod in general - but specifically the statement bolded here is completely innaccurate. More heat means more power. Period.

The problem is that when you get too much heat, then you get 'pre-detonation' of fuel, or knock. With computer controlled cars, this knock is sensed, and the engine kicks the timing back into extremely conservative mode. With older cars, you just get sootiness and poor fuel efficiency. The trick is to run as hot as possible without knock.
Now, that being said, it appears that with many LS1's the stock tune runs you into the knock situation at stock operating temps. That is where it is very possible that lowering the t-stat is a good move. To really know for sure, monitoring of how your engine is running is necessary.
dan
 

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Registered
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DANSLS1 said:
I'm not arguing the worthiness of the mod in general - but specifically the statement bolded here is completely innaccurate. More heat means more power. Period.

The problem is that when you get too much heat, then you get 'pre-detonation' of fuel, or knock. With computer controlled cars, this knock is sensed, and the engine kicks the timing back into extremely conservative mode. With older cars, you just get sootiness and poor fuel efficiency. The trick is to run as hot as possible without knock.
Now, that being said, it appears that with many LS1's the stock tune runs you into the knock situation at stock operating temps. That is where it is very possible that lowering the t-stat is a good move. To really know for sure, monitoring of how your engine is running is necessary.
dan
watching the predator while on the dyno (i'll need to watch on the road though) the knock retard values never left 0.0. So this means no pre-ign and therfor its not too hot? This being the case then a 160 t-stat isn't going to help. right?

On the other hand... Does this mean there's room to advance the timing?
 

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May I quote you on that?
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22,046 Posts
DANSLS1 said:
I'm not arguing the worthiness of the mod in general - but specifically the statement bolded here is completely innaccurate. More heat means more power. Period.

The problem is that when you get too much heat, then you get 'pre-detonation' of fuel, or knock. With computer controlled cars, this knock is sensed, and the engine kicks the timing back into extremely conservative mode. With older cars, you just get sootiness and poor fuel efficiency. The trick is to run as hot as possible without knock.
Now, that being said, it appears that with many LS1's the stock tune runs you into the knock situation at stock operating temps. That is where it is very possible that lowering the t-stat is a good move. To really know for sure, monitoring of how your engine is running is necessary.
dan
One other thing worth mentioning, is that cylinder wall lubrication efficiency starts to drop below 180. This topic has been mentioned here as well as argued ad-nauseum for years. Of course, putting in a 160 doesn't mean that your ECT will necessarily be at 160, even with fans reprogrammed or at highway speed, but one should always be aware of the tradeoffs involved in any change. It may even be possible that use of modern synthetic oil may alter those numbers somewhat, but I haven't run across any specific studies yet. With a supercharged, high compression, or any full-race scenario, of course, the likely tradeoff will be made in favor of lower temps, but as a daily driver seeking the longest possible engine life, one might not wish to drop the ECT for the sake of dropping it. I personally use Radiator Relief, which is an agent that improves heat transfer in the coolant and reduces localized hot spots in the coolant passages. Unlike other products with similar effects, this stuff is non-corrosive.
 

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HP Hack
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94 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
Sorry for all the confusion, as we did not know that the 04 GTOs would use the older style stat as well as possibly the newer stat. Please make sure you identify as they did come with both!
 
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