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Dick Ross
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7,239 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Been wanting to put the family name on something for a while now, and it's finally time to do it. I've wanted something like this for a long time, so I started playing around with my software and I think I might be onto something awesome. The cartridge is based off of 20 gauge shotgun brass, similar to my 12 gauge from hell. The key difference being, this is intended for subsonic velocities to be used with a suppressor. This will be firing a 1000 grain .615" boat tail hollow point at a little over 1100 fps. It will produce around 3000 ft-lbs of muzzle energy, while remaining completely subsonic. The gun I've chosen for this is the savage 220 bolt action shotgun. The cartridge is going to be short enough to mag feed and requires no special chamber, so that means you can still fire normal 20 gauge shot shells. This cartridge is meant for medium game, such as deer. Technically, it's still a shotgun per definition by the ATF, meaning it *should be legal in shotgun hunting only states. The suppressor isn't a requirement, but it adds to the cartridge. So far I have ordered brass, a bull 24" barrel and will have the gun later today. The barrel swap might not be neccessary if I can keep pressure low enough, but it does add a little weight to a 6 lb gun, which it'll need. Recoil won't be too terrible, but it will definitely have some kick. Sligh mods to the stock to reinforce it from the extra recoil, weight added to the stock, and an aftermarket butt pad will tame it quite a bit. The bullets are going to be made by the same folks who did my 12 gauge solids and I think I found someone to make the suppressor. So far, people have seemed to really like this idea and quite a few are interested in building one. I think it'll be a really fun big bore, especially with a suppressor. Will post back here when I finally have work to show.
 

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Have Bar, Will Travel
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9,738 Posts
so then would it feed though a say Remmington 1100 in 20 ga? and uhm would it be effective at say 20 yards against bipedal predators?

LOL. I wish you luck, sounds interesting. Just hope it doesn't give headaches when fired.
 

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Dick Ross
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7,239 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Lol this will have waaaay less recoil than the 12 gauge from hell. Still some recoil, but only about as much as a 10 gauge. With a little weight and a pad it won't be bad at all. As for firearms, I'm specifically designing it for the bolt action savage. It will have a little more pressure than SAAMI, but still extremely low pressure. The drop is going to be pretty substantial, but luckily drop is the easiest variable to account for and it damn sure won't be effected by wind drift much. When I get the cartridge vetted for safety and get pressure readings, I'll have a drop chart posted.
 

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Dick Ross
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7,239 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
What about in a 20ga crack barrel?
Would likely work in an h&r ultra slug. Wouldn't trust anything else. That's what I use for my 12 gauge from hell and it's way way hotter than my 20 gauge cartridge
 

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Dick Ross
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7,239 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
502870


Got the gun. Needs a new stock for sure. This thing is butt ugly. Not to worry, I'll get her lookin finer than a $10 lott lizard on a Saturday night and screaming like a raped ape.
 

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Dick Ross
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7,239 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
 

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Dick Ross
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7,239 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
JD Jones has spoken! I agree with what he says about the challenge of keeping it quiet, should be interesting.
Screenshot_20200626-074603_Facebook.jpg
 

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Have Bar, Will Travel
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9,738 Posts
you know might be worth having a brush in the silencer just to keep the hole closed while the bullet moves to and though it. Not a brush suppressor, where the brush is the only noise reduction but more a light fiber of some form like a high temp nylon. IE it's like a flap door that provides no hinderance.

will be interesting to see.
 

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Dick Ross
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7,239 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
I was thinking of adding a wipe (small bit of rubber) but the problem with that, and the brush idea is you yourself cannot replace it once it wears out. It is considered part of the silencer by the atf and you can't change it. Fucking bullshit, I know.
 

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I was thinking of adding a wipe (small bit of rubber) but the problem with that, and the brush idea is you yourself cannot replace it once it wears out. It is considered part of the silencer by the atf and you can't change it. Fucking bullshit, I know.
How they gonna know that you replaced a worn item? You should be able to disassemble it for cleaning anyways.
 

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Have Bar, Will Travel
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9,738 Posts
I was about to say the same.

issue with a flap vs the brush - is that with the pressure build up and the bullet rushing forward. the forward pressure wave - while taken in by the suppressor chamber(s) what does come out the end will be enough to push the flap open before the bullet. Or I theorize it would be. where the brush would mask it and slow it down without bottling it up so do speak.

Think difuser vs trap door. More importantly - until you make and trial it - don't really know if necessary. I guess a benchmark would be checking out the suppresor for something like an 50AE
 

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Dick Ross
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7,239 Posts
Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
I'm trying to get the cartridge to a somewhat popular status, so if I'm try to make it so I don't have to tell people to do something illegal to make it quiet 😂

20200627_145643.jpg


*dummy cartridge made off my 3d Printer

So I broke out the calculator to give a clear example of why this cartridge is special compared to other subsonic cartridges.To keep it apples to apples I made the calculations all at the same velocity of 1050 fps.

.300 aac blackout 194gr = 475 FT-LBs

.450 Bushmaster 395gr = 967 FT-LBs

.45-70 500gr = 1224 FT-LBs

.50 Beowulf 600gr = 1469 FT-LBs

600 Ferran 1000gr = 2448 FT-LBs

As you can see, my cartridge concept is an absolute hammer at such a low velocity. With the added benefit of being able to still fire 20 gauge shot shells, this makes for an incredibly versatile package for hunting just about anything we have on this continent.

20200627_153115.jpg


20200627_153133.jpg


20200627_153142.jpg
 

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Dick Ross
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7,239 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
Got a powder that is looking very promising. Accurate 4100. Magnum pistol powder. Pretty fast stuff. Is showing 38 grains fills the case 44% and will push the 1000 gr pill to 1145 fps for 2,911 ft-lbs of energy. Pressure is looking to be below 20k psi just barely at 18899 psi. Action should handle that fine, worried about the barrel. I did get the bull barrel, which is 1" diameter the entire length. Could go thicker, but lose the ability to use the savage barrel nut. This would require a gunsmith to install and would drive the price even higher. Right now a very rough estimate for someone to start loading this cartridge in the 220 is $2100 sans suppressor. That's accounting for 20 pieces of brass and 100 slugs. Not too shabby for a big bore that can also shoot a standard shot shell. Even cheaper if someone didn't care about mag feeding and used an H&R ultra slug hunter. All that would be needed then would be more weight and a better pad for the increase in recoil. Right now recoil estimates are pretty low at 59 lbs with a 10 pound gun not too bad especially if you had a nice pad.
 

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Dick Ross
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7,239 Posts
Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
Oops wrong thread
 

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