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The Anti Dyno Racer
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It's around 1600 RPM if I remember correctly.
 

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Autobahn Fahrer
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What is the advantage of raising stall speeds?

A guy had an A4 Z28 w/3400 Stall TC at the track yesterday and was saying that he drove it 3hrs to the track...does higher stall decrease driveability? (I know it does...but how so?)

Why is a higher stall speed necessary to going faster?
 

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The Anti Dyno Racer
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SyGoat said:
What is the advantage of raising stall speeds?

A guy had an A4 Z28 w/3400 Stall TC at the track yesterday and was saying that he drove it 3hrs to the track...does higher stall decrease driveability? (I know it does...but how so?)

Why is a higher stall speed necessary to going faster?
See my reply in this thread, it will explain a lot of what you would like to know:

http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6889&page=2

See post #35, PM me if there's more info you need or if you have questions. :burnout:
 

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Heck, a higher stall speed converter will INCREASE drivability -- unless you pick a 4400 or something like that :) This car truly needs a 3200 RPM converter from the factory.. Of course, that would annoy the M6 guys, because then the A4's would be kicking their butts!
 

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The Anti Dyno Racer
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Pontiac GTO said:
Lets say you had a stock A4 GTO and you put in a 2600 stall TC what kinda quarter times would you be running?
I wouldn't even waste my time dropping the trans to put in a 2600 stall. Gains would be minimal, maybe a tenth or so off of your stock time.
 

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3200 to 3600 RPM converter (a GOOD one, ie. Vigi 3200 or Vigi 3600) would drop half a second or more, if you can get the car to hook up... Tire spin will definitely become a problem :)

Must .... resist ... installing ... Vigi 3200 sitting upstairs .... (its earmarked for my LS1 Mustang project)
 

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Autobahn Fahrer
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What would the driveability issues (I drive 90-150km everyday) be with a 3200/3600 Converter? How is high speed affected? (I'm in Germany)

Lastly how much and where?
 

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Higher speeds are 100% NOT affected in any way, shape, or form. The 4L60e has a lockup converter, which all the aftermarket units retain. Once it locks up (above like 35 MPH or so), it functions identically to a stock unit -- direct coupled. Drivability is actually improved with a better / higher stall converter. The car will feel lighter, and feel like it has more power. The only "odd" thing you'll notice at first is instead of the car instantaneously moving off a light at 1000 RPM, you'll need a bit more throttle to get her moving. With a 3200 converter (perfect for the GTO, in my opinion) you'll hit around 2200 RPM give or take before the car really starts pulling off the light quickly. Hit the gas harder, and HOLD ON !! :) The best way to really compare it is to drive a car with a weak engine and an automatic, like a typical economy 4-cylinder car. Watch the tach when you take off from a light, and you'll notice it hits around 2000 or so where the GTO is pulling at 1000. You're basically trading the extra RPM at launch, for more torque at the tires.

One thing is certain, once you drive a car with a good aftermarket converter, you'll feel anything without one is slow.
 

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Autobahn Fahrer
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Brains said:
Higher speeds are 100% NOT affected in any way, shape, or form. The 4L60e has a lockup converter, which all the aftermarket units retain. Once it locks up (above like 35 MPH or so), it functions identically to a stock unit -- direct coupled. Drivability is actually improved with a better / higher stall converter. The car will feel lighter, and feel like it has more power. The only "odd" thing you'll notice at first is instead of the car instantaneously moving off a light at 1000 RPM, you'll need a bit more throttle to get her moving. With a 3200 converter (perfect for the GTO, in my opinion) you'll hit around 2200 RPM give or take before the car really starts pulling off the light quickly. Hit the gas harder, and HOLD ON !! :) The best way to really compare it is to drive a car with a weak engine and an automatic, like a typical economy 4-cylinder car. Watch the tach when you take off from a light, and you'll notice it hits around 2000 or so where the GTO is pulling at 1000. You're basically trading the extra RPM at launch, for more torque at the tires.

One thing is certain, once you drive a car with a good aftermarket converter, you'll feel anything without one is slow.
Been there done that in the Syclone. I have a built 700r4 in the Syclone with a 2800 on a 20g Turbo. Understand how it worked with that truck but I'm confused with an N/A vehicle.

I'm leaning towards a 3200 but from what you've just said...kinda scares me about driveability. Seems like the power is just moved upward and hidden and can come on faster / harder and more in a rush now...causing a side sping (been there done that last weekend GTO is in the body shop now) more than is usual. Is this what I am hearing?
 

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4L60E+moded ls1+saudi = bad
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Brains said:
Higher speeds are 100% NOT affected in any way, shape, or form. The 4L60e has a lockup converter, which all the aftermarket units retain. Once it locks up (above like 35 MPH or so), it functions identically to a stock unit -- direct coupled. Drivability is actually improved with a better / higher stall converter. The car will feel lighter, and feel like it has more power. The only "odd" thing you'll notice at first is instead of the car instantaneously moving off a light at 1000 RPM, you'll need a bit more throttle to get her moving. With a 3200 converter (perfect for the GTO, in my opinion) you'll hit around 2200 RPM give or take before the car really starts pulling off the light quickly. Hit the gas harder, and HOLD ON !! :).
Hey man i have a Vigilante TC 2800 stall here in front of me but i didnt install it yet.
i will install it with 500hp SLP heads/cam package, SW LT's,SLP loud mouth, B&M cooler, SLP pulley ,SLP timing chain, speed inc induction.
is the 2800 Vigilante good for me? am i going to feel it :eek2: ? this is my 1st time to drive a car with a non stock TC. can you guess my 1/4 times? lol i wish if i could do low 12's
 

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2004 Torrid Red GTO
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hmmm, I thought I read somewhere that the car came with a 2800 stall converter...?
 

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The looser converter is SAFER by a BIG margin when it comes to being able to control tire spin on slippery surfaces. The line between NO and GO is now a broad grey area controlled by your right foot. Its so hard to describe without actually driving it :) With a higher stall, you can much more easily control coming off the line when you need to. The only time you will really blow the tires off is if you hit the gas hard enough to bring the engine RPMs above the stall speed. The higher the stall, the more throttle room you have before the car starts putting big power to the ground. Here's a good thing to take your mind off the drivability issue ;) My girlfriend drives a 1998 Z/28, 6 liter iron block, heads, cam, headers, LS6 intake, pulley, etc. etc. etc. The transmission is a fully built 4L60e with a 3200 Vigilante converter. Out back are 3.42 gears, and 315mm Nittos. She has no problems at all driving in the rain or any other time with the car.

Your gas mileage on the highway will be completely unaffected. With a 3200'ish converter, your city mileage will likely stay the same, or maybe vary by 1 mpg.

Dark, you'll definitely feel it ;) BUT I will almost guarantee you'll be wanting to increase the stall speed at some point... lol. Its VERY addictive, there's nothing like the BIG TIME torque hit when you floor the gas.

Hmmmm... this video clip might help explain it a little bit, its a video we made of the girlfriend's car (her driving of course) when we installed a (very cool, new style) powered cutout plate on the car.

Right-click, save-as please :)
http://www.htownracing.com/Video/Cutout.wmv
 

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Short answer: No

Long answer: it depends ;) Since the major torque hit will be starting out from 0 MPH when the transmission is already holding 1st gear, no additional wear and tear is placed on the transmission at all. Wear comes when the clutch friction material slips -- and the only time it slips is during a shift when the forces will be the same as with your stock converter (since you shift above the stall speed). The transmission always slips on each shift -- on purpose -- for shift feel. If it didn't, every shift would be so harsh we'd be breaking driveline parts and complaining about shift feel ;) Heat is always the biggest enemy, and the harder the converter is run below the stall speed, the more heat it will produce. So unless you're being abusive and doing stuff like holding the car up on the converter (ie. holding the brake and holding the gas while not moving) for extended periods of time (like over 30 seconds) your factory cooling system will easily manage the heat from an aftermarket torque converter. Some folks like to put auxiliary transmission coolers inline, which can definitely help -- but only when the car is moving (airflow). If you do dumb stuff like holding the car up on the converter for a long time, you can burn up the STOCK setup just as fast as you would an aftermarket setup. Daily driving even in bumper-to-bumper stop-and-go traffic won't raise the transmission temperature anywhere near the point of worry.

One thing to remember about our transmissions though -- they're only designed to handle so much power. So if you're planning heads/cam/converter and nitrous, plan on a transmission rebuild in about a year. Hitting a transmission designed for ~400 HP with around ~600 HP will take its toll eventually, and you'll need to upgrade ;)
 

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Oh my f*ck!
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Brains said:
Short answer: No

Long answer: it depends ;) Since the major torque hit will be starting out from 0 MPH when the transmission is already holding 1st gear, no additional wear and tear is placed on the transmission at all. Wear comes when the clutch friction material slips -- and the only time it slips is during a shift when the forces will be the same as with your stock converter (since you shift above the stall speed). The transmission always slips on each shift -- on purpose -- for shift feel. If it didn't, every shift would be so harsh we'd be breaking driveline parts and complaining about shift feel ;) Heat is always the biggest enemy, and the harder the converter is run below the stall speed, the more heat it will produce. So unless you're being abusive and doing stuff like holding the car up on the converter (ie. holding the brake and holding the gas while not moving) for extended periods of time (like over 30 seconds) your factory cooling system will easily manage the heat from an aftermarket torque converter. Some folks like to put auxiliary transmission coolers inline, which can definitely help -- but only when the car is moving (airflow). If you do dumb stuff like holding the car up on the converter for a long time, you can burn up the STOCK setup just as fast as you would an aftermarket setup. Daily driving even in bumper-to-bumper stop-and-go traffic won't raise the transmission temperature anywhere near the point of worry.


One thing to remember about our transmissions though -- they're only designed to handle so much power. So if you're planning heads/cam/converter and nitrous, plan on a transmission rebuild in about a year. Hitting a transmission designed for ~400 HP with around ~600 HP will take its toll eventually, and you'll need to upgrade ;)
That's when you go over to LS1Speed, buy a Maximum Evil transmission, get a new higher TC, and go. :)
 
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