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I am now NOBOOST GTO SOLD
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Here are the results of todays dyno session this is on 91 octane with 1 can of Torco and 12.5 psi and I am out of injector 95%duty cycle so we stopped the run short. Please note this is only 13 degrees of timing and you can see the airfuel is dangerously lean. Oh and for the people who say log manifolds wont work I think this proves otherwise. I am now tired of screwing around with the fuel system I am going to just boost referance it and call it a day and get some 72lb injectors.

Les

The next post will have the graph thanks Jody!!

Guys please remember the kit I have is the older kit it has smaller turbos and manifolds than the new kit coming from APS, my turbos flow approx 44lb a minute and the new turbo kit will flow approx 50lb so there will be even more hp potential on the new kit.
 

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I am now NOBOOST GTO SOLD
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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
mikesgtoinvegas said:
awesome #s les.
Thanks Mike its amazing I have two in tank 255 walbros Y together with separate wiring and relays along with a Magnavolt and fuel pressure is still a issue. I will route a separate fuel line for the return and just do it correctly along with boost referancing it. I also found out today that my wideband is inacurate what I thought was a 10.0 airfuel is actually closer to 12.5 and 13.0 needless to say my engine is still Ok but most likely down the road I will just go ahead and forge it after I solve all fuel issues.

Les
 

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I am now NOBOOST GTO SOLD
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Discussion Starter #6
camcojb said:
Quite good considering it's on 13 degrees of timing and only pulls to 5000 rpms! :turbonaug Can you imagine a full pull past 6K?

Good job Les, and APS.

Jody
Jody I agree I am very happy with #s but am actually more disapointed that my fuel system is still not up to the task. Oh well just need to do it correctly.

Les

PS Jody wish you would get another Goat!!
 

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Very very nice!! I thought the APS came with all the fuel improvements. Perhaps I was mistaken. If you go 72 Lb'ers, you'll probably want to go low impedance with an injector amplifier. I don't know of any high impedance 72's that are as well behaved as the Mototrons. You can run over 75 PSI on Mototron 60's without them sticking. Personally, I'd use 60's and throw a Weldon fuel pump at it. http://www.weldonracing.com/d2345_chart.html
 

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Loboost said:
Thanks Mike its amazing I have two in tank 255 walbros Y together with separate wiring and relays along with a Magnavolt and fuel pressure is still a issue. I will route a separate fuel line for the return and just do it correctly along with boost referancing it. I also found out today that my wideband is inacurate what I thought was a 10.0 airfuel is actually closer to 12.5 and 13.0 needless to say my engine is still Ok but most likely down the road I will just go ahead and forge it after I solve all fuel issues.

Les
What wideband are you using, and how did you determine it was off? Some dyno widebands are nothing to brag about.
 

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I am now NOBOOST GTO SOLD
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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
mistermike said:
What wideband are you using, and how did you determine it was off? Some dyno widebands are nothing to brag about.
Thanks for the compliments Mike!!! I am using a inovate wideband, The new APS kit coming out will offer a fuel system upgrades for stock boost levels. My Tuner is Gill Navaro he is very well known in the racing world, we based this off of three factors

1. he knows his to be very accurate I will take his word for it.

2. plug readings also confirmed this

3. looking at the data that the factory O2s are sending also confirms that they are on max lean as well.

He also feels with proper fueling and a little more aggresive tuning 675rwhp or more could easily be attained.

I will research the injectors a little more but I believe there are now some good high impedence injectors in the 72lb range I will look into it. If not I will go with the 60s

Les

PS the two pulls are the way I have been driving the car Gill decided not to touch the tune until I get fuel so I am down to 10psi of boost for now.
 

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I need more cowbell!
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I do not see any mods on your signature. What else besides the twins? H/C? etc?

Sorry if your mods are well known but I am fairly new here.
 

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I am now NOBOOST GTO SOLD
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Discussion Starter #11
06gtobuyer said:
I do not see any mods on your signature. What else besides the twins? H/C? etc?

Sorry if your mods are well known but I am fairly new here.
I have 72cc Patriot 6 liter heads and a LPE GT2-3 and totally stock bottom end. And a few driveline mods.

Les
 

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Not trying to start anything, but (2) 225L Pumps and 60# injectors should support much more than 600RWHP (I'm talking 800+). My suggestion would be to go over everything just to make sure that everything is working as it should.

You just said that you will look into the 60's so I am guessing that you must have something like 42's ... Keep in mind that the larger you go the harder it will be to control drivability. I'd look around at everyone that has 60's has supports the HP that you want and call it a day.
 

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I've run 95's that were smooth as silk. I had 60's in my APS GTO and it was a non-issue as far as tuning goes.

I think the stock tank and lines are an issue with these cars.

Jody
 

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Discussion Starter #14
DevilYellow said:
Not trying to start anything, but (2) 225L Pumps and 60# injectors should support much more than 600RWHP (I'm talking 800+). My suggestion would be to go over everything just to make sure that everything is working as it should.

You just said that you will look into the 60's so I am guessing that you must have something like 42's ... Keep in mind that the larger you go the harder it will be to control drivability. I'd look around at everyone that has 60's has supports the HP that you want and call it a day.
I agree with you and like Jody said it is most likely the lines and non return system. I was hoping that two 255 would be able to overcome the fuel systems shortcomings but now know otherwise. Remember this tune is still very conservative so I will need a lot of fuel and most likely will need to settle with 60s since all the 72s I have found are low impedence injectors.

Les
 

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Loboost said:
I agree with you and like Jody said it is most likely the lines and non return system. I was hoping that two 255 would be able to overcome the fuel systems shortcomings but now know otherwise. Remember this tune is still very conservative so I will need a lot of fuel and most likely will need to settle with 60s since all the 72s I have found are low impedence injectors.

Les

I know where you can get 75 high impedance injectors. But even 60's go beyond GM's factoring on the injector sizes, though they can be tuned. Not sure how much trouble 75's will be as GM doesn't allow a big enough number in the LS2 computer for 75's.

I have seen two personal friends go over 1000 hp with 65's, though the duty cycle is up there at that power level.

Jody
 

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Discussion Starter #16
camcojb said:
I know where you can get 75 high impedance injectors. But even 60's go beyond GM's factoring on the injector sizes, though they can be tuned. Not sure how much trouble 75's will be as GM doesn't allow a big enough number in the LS2 computer for 75's.

I have seen two personal friends go over 1000 hp with 65's, though the duty cycle is up there at that power level.

Jody
Thanks Jody I will call you tomorrow and maybe we can disscuss it.

Les
 

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60's with a high volume pump and return syst should work fine. The Mototrons are sometimes seen as 65# rated, but they're rated 60 by Mototron. There is no problem tuning these with a GM ECM, in fact they are easier to idle tune than some smaller injectors. I don't know of anything bigger in a high impedance style that has anywhere near the driveability and tuneability of the Mototrons.
The other benefit of the return setup is if you're using a boost referenced regulator with a 1:1 rise, your Injector Flow Rate is a flat line. Really simplifies tuning.

I'd be really interested in what Klaus has to say about your wideband. They're supposed to be dead accurate when calibrated in free air. About the only thing that can screw them up is silicon / lead / phosphorus contamination or calibrating them while exhaust gasses are still in the system.
 

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I've never seen a more beautiful torque curve in all my life. OUTSTANDING!
 

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very nice numbers, need dynos vids man! I dont think I;ve seen any turbo gto dyno vids or turbo gto street vids beside the one on the aps website.
 
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