[krh0003]

I will definitly be checking my measurements when I get around to putting my new clutch in. If needed, is there a source for slave shims or is pretty much a dealer item?

 

[Radio]

Steve,

Would you please publish your numbers? I don't believe I have seen them anywhere on here and they did not come with the kit I purchased.

-Don

My numbers are easy -

• Make sure your hydraulic system is healthy
• Install the clutch per the instructions provided
• Make certain the system is bled properly
• Enjoy

I've designed these to not need shims, we test every single unit before it leaves here on a pull down table to make certain the release point is within spec. My clutches fully release at the .230-.250 area, this mixed with pedal throw, stack height, lift, and release on the pressure plate means that zero shims are necessary with the above mentioned things addressed.

 

[Konnie the Goat]

I will definitly be checking my measurements when I get around to putting my new clutch in. If needed, is there a source for slave shims or is pretty much a dealer item?

A dealer wont have them. I can promise you that. If I need them, I get them from my local speed shop dealer, and they are usually RAM branded.

 

[A_VAS]

I find it easier to do the Trans-to-TO bearing measurement with the spring under the throwout bearing removed...pull the throw out off and remove spring, put it on and depress it all the way back w/ bleeder open. It will stay back then.
Put spring back on when you re-assemble.

(for krh0003s question)

 

[littlemissGTO]

Parts of this thread will be used in my driveline class. I'm thinking my instructor saw something he liked.

 

[littlemissGTO]

Credit where credit is due, right?

Yes. Konnie did an excellent job. My instructor was impressed.

 

[mistermike]

I'm thinking my instructor saw something he liked.

Hope it wasn't Konnie.

 

[Konnie the Goat]

Anything interesting turn up in discussion? Since we didnt have much here.

 

[Nathaninwa]

I found this thread very informative. Most poeple on another forum Im dont understand that as the clutch wares, the fingers move outward and thus the spacing of the internal, and even external are important.

I have a bit off install here, and am putting a GTO T56 into my 940 Volvo. From the reading and video watching, Im apt to stick with a 3/4 master. I have a 6-1 pedal ratio, but since I have a 240mm clutch (9.5inches) I bet my mecahnical ratios are different on the Pressure plate. Southbend is saying .250 for disc release and something like .4 inches compression on the fingers for proper disc spacing.

I need to replace my master in my car, and was looking at the 7/8 bore setup....but looking at the overall picture, Im thinking its best to start with a 3/4 bore again.

And I love the way you do things....Ive cut up used heads for porting before to see how much material was there, but never anyting new....I love it!

 

[Haggis]

Konnie, I have a couple of questions:-

1. With only 1/16" being the difference between a released clutch and a dragging clutch, do you think GM measures the distances before installing the transmission at the factory? Do they assume all the machining on every clutch, bell housing, TOB is the same? I suppose this could go for any manufacturer.

2. Can the stock rubber clutch line take 400psi without bulging out? If it does bulge, I wonder how much force is lost because of it. If it were replaced with a solid metal line, would pedal travel be reduced because more force would be transferring directly to the slave?

Thanks for the excellent thread.

 

[Konnie the Goat]

The difference in spacing i used for this was 1/8", and I am certain GM doesnt check shit. All OEs assume shit, mainly because its all new and nothing is worn or been taken apart. the more aftermarket bits you have (block, crank, clutch) the more you need to be worried about it. Tolerance stacking is a bitch.

The rubber line is known to balloon with exposure to heat, and its has a bit of a porosity issue as well. There are several vendors who sell upgraded lines, or you can look at the fittings and source your own. Heat shielding is a must.

 

[Napalm]

curious. boiling clutch fliud?

And like you said about the slave. its in a hot dusty place. Are there significant differences between the LS7 Slave and TOB vs the stock GTO parts.

(tolerance stack up and heat are a B, and yes I asked you this before but it might be good to put in here too)

 

[DSMinVA]

The rubber line is known to balloon with exposure to heat, and its has a bit of a porosity issue as well. There are several vendors who sell upgraded lines, or you can look at the fittings and source your own. Heat shielding is a must.

Konnie- Can you tell us what the threads are on the stock master?
I *think* I read somewhere thay are M10x1.0 but that seems like an oddball size.
Im starting to think my problems are in my lines due to heat, and want to replace them with heat wrapped braided lines. I would like to place a banjo bolt on the stock master with a -3AN line and can't figure out with one I need.
I might just go with an fbody slave, and actually use the quick disconnect from the fbody, unless someone knows of a source for GTO quick disconnect to AN adapters.

Thanks for the awesome info, I wish I had the balls to cut up some parts, sounds fun!

 

[Konnie the Goat]

it is a M10x1.0 thread. That leaves your plumbing options wide open for that end. Banjo-AN -3 or -4, or you can go with a straight nipple in -3 or -4. Pretty much anything but a hard line. NVH and heat would go up.

Napalm, The vette parts mount differently and have incompatible plumbing. Beyond that, function is the same. Even if they could work, there would be no improvement.

 

[95wagon]

Hello, don't post much as we have a G8 and a Chev wagon
One thing I do when trying to calculate if I have enough finger to bearing clearance at rest is assemble the clutch with either a worn disc or a spacer in place of the disc simulating a worn disc.

This will give the max finger height that will ever occur.
Then I make sure the bearing is just clear.

This way The slave piston can run as low ( I feel it is more supported) as possible but not bottom as the clutch wears.
Also the least chance of ever topping out.


LS7-Katech Flywheel-LS9 clutch-SSR trans&slave - Tilton 13/16 master-homemade linkage.
Gerry

 

[DSMinVA]

I wanted to add this here as its usefull info for some....
The stock quick disconnect from the slave on cars is also used on J-Body's (Caviliers) and the BMW M3 / E46 (01-05).

This might be usefull for those that want to upgrade their lines without buying a new master cylinder, or taking out the tranny. I found that you can buy braided stainless lines for a BMW to plug into the slave, and with a union fitting extend it up to the master. Approx cost - $100

Upgrading the line, and wrapping with heat sheild would probably fix 90% of peoples day to day issues with the stock clutch system.

 

[krh0003]

I'm glad I saw this thread back when I did. I was installing a new clutch in my car last night, and after taking measurements, found that I had .375 difference. I ended up using 2 shims from the Tick shim kit (.055 and .180), bringing my measurment back down to .140 which falls within the .125-.200 recommendation. I would have been seriously pissed had I not checked this and ended up with a slipping clutch. Thanks again for the research, you're the man!

 

[svede1212]

You wouldn't have had a slipping clutch as your slave was too far away from the PP fingers. You would have either not gotten full disengagement when the pedal was depressed or a blown out slave from over extending.

 

[krh0003]

You wouldn't have had a slipping clutch as your slave was too far away from the PP fingers. You would have either not gotten full disengagement when the pedal was depressed or a blown out slave from over extending.

Understood. It was a late night, or should I say morning, out in the garage. Going to bed at 4am and getting up with the youngns at 7am has my head a litle screwed up

 

[ArthurJGuy]

This post has given me some great technical information. I skimmed it before but never sat and read everything and watched the videos.

My clutch has given me issues shifting and all I was told by the clutch manufacturer was never ever to shim it and to get an adjustable master. Reluctantly I bought an adjustable master from them and now I either can't shift or I blow the slave - there is no inbetween adjustment and I can't even get any tech support out of Tick on the master. Now, after I parted with the $$$ for the master I find out the clutch manufacturer has shimmed their clutches in the past in some scenarios,

This weekend I am removing the master and putting my stock one back in, replacing the blown slave, and doing the measurements to shim correctly. Having the measurements and seeing how being off so little can screw up things so bad in KTG's video really helped things make sense.