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Discussion Starter #1
Hey All – I have A-Tap on Palm that I used for the GTP. I now need to set it up for the GTO.
With this setup I had setup 5 different screens that I could monitor while underway.

For our GTO, what are the values I should be logging and what are the optimum ranges for those values?

Here is what I am planning to log, I just need to know what is the optimum ranges for each…

Value - - - - Range
Screen-1
KR - - - - 0
Ignition Timing - - - 20+
Injector Pulse Width #1 - - - - at WOT ?-?
Mass Air Flow Raw Input Frequency - - - - at WOT ?-?

Screen-2
Engine Coolent Temp - - - - ???
Transmission Oil Temp - - - - ???
Intake Air Temp - - - - As close to ambient as possible
Long Term Fuel Trim Bank 1 - - - - ?-?

Screen-3
Misfire Current Cylinder #1 - #8 - - - - 0
Engine Speed - - - - ~~
Throttle Position Angle - - - - ~~

Screen-4
Also – Which O2 Sensors should I be monitoring and what is the optimum range?
Options on my A-Tap are...
O2 Sensor - Bank 1 Sensor 1
O2 Sensor - Bank 1 Sensor 2
O2 Sensor - Bank 2 Sensor 1
O2 Sensor - Bank 2 Sensor 1 - (why 2 of the same?)
O2 Sensor - Bank 2 Sensor 2
O2 Sensor - Bank 2 Sensor 2 - (why 2 of the same?)


What else should I be logging?


Does anybody else have A-Tap on Palm? How did you mount it in the GTO?
On the GTP I used a cel-phone belt clip attached to the left center vent.


Thanks a bunch for any input you can provide this V8 newbie.

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Discussion Starter #2
anybody? :confused:
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Mod Hungry... Empty Wallet
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You might be breaking new ground here... but you got me thinking about a new use for my Clie'
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Huntress said:
You might be breaking new ground here... but you got me thinking about a new use for my Clie'
With this in place it is easy to monitor and log test runs, out on the back roads, in my never-ending quest for ‘0’ KR…


Engine Temp | LTFT
Tranny Temp | IAT

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I agree... that is sweet :)
 

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I hack cars.
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On that note if anyone wants a really good deal on a used sony clie, I've got one for sale with goodies cheap :)
 

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Just a note... I could not find a ODBII cable for the Clie, that alone stops this for me, but I would have stopped at the cost of the software... the price they want will make me go the HP Tuners route.
 

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Are you looking for an option other than buying the EFILive upgrade for the LS1? From the AutoTap website:

EFILive Upgrades

EFILive software is optimized for GM’s LS1 engine. Highly recommended for Performance Enthusiasts with LS1-equipped vehicles!

Add EFILive Standard Edition software to your AutoTap

Model ATEFISTD $238.95
Add EFILive Professional version with bi-directional controls to your AT1 or AT123

Model ATEFIPRO $338.95
Upgrade your EFILive Standard Edition software to EFILive Pro

Model U1EFISTDPRO $100


Upgrade from EFILiveV5 to EFILiveV6, click here.
To order, write down the serial number found on the side of your AutoTap hardware and call us (815) 433 – 5100 from 8:00 AM to 4:30 PM CST.
 

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GTPprix said:
I've got an adapter for the clie, they have em.
My searches last night were fruitless... where did you find yours?

<edit> maybe I was looking for the wrong thing... am I just looking for a serial adapter that plugs into the AutoTap connection?</edit>
 

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I hack cars.
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Huntress your looking for the right thing!! Which clie model do you have I'll try and dig one up, I found mine by looking for cell phone interface cables.
 

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GTPprix said:
Huntress your looking for the right thing!! Which clie model do you have I'll try and dig one up, I found mine by looking for cell phone interface cables.
Actually I wasn't looking for the right thing... I realized this morning that maybe I should be looking for a serial cable. ;)

Thanks for offering to look, now that I am thinking straight I should be able to find it :banghead:
 

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I hack cars.
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Okies :) If you need any help and/or want your avatar back, let me know :)
 

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13 year owner
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A Couple of things with AutoTap. IF you select to many items to scan, it slows down it's sampling rate. So with a lot of selections, a full throttle 0-120mph run may only net you 15 - 20 lines of data vs. going with a few main items at a time, and making multiple passes. You'll net more lines of valuable data especially at shift points and at certain RPM levels.

For intance, on mine, I have about 15 things I log each time that I have in a template. Due to this, sometimes the sampling rate is slow and I'll have at WOT throttle a line of data at 4,200rpm, 5,300rpm, 5,900rpm and then back to 4,000rpm (I shifted. There are a lot of valuable gaps there that I missed due to logging so many items.

Anyway, to answer your second question, if you hit F1, A-Tap should tell you what the operating parameter ranges fall within for each item. It also is a matter of learning your car and it's preferences. I could tell you what I mine are, but you're logging a supercharged V6 car and they have different needs than a N/A V8.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
CMNTMXR57 said:
A Couple of things with AutoTap. IF you select to many items to scan, it slows down it's sampling rate. So with a lot of selections, a full throttle 0-120mph run may only net you 15 - 20 lines of data vs. going with a few main items at a time, and making multiple passes. You'll net more lines of valuable data especially at shift points and at certain RPM levels.

For intance, on mine, I have about 15 things I log each time that I have in a template. Due to this, sometimes the sampling rate is slow and I'll have at WOT throttle a line of data at 4,200rpm, 5,300rpm, 5,900rpm and then back to 4,000rpm (I shifted. There are a lot of valuable gaps there that I missed due to logging so many items.

Anyway, to answer your second question, if you hit F1, A-Tap should tell you what the operating parameter ranges fall within for each item. It also is a matter of learning your car and it's preferences. I could tell you what I mine are, but you're logging a supercharged V6 car and they have different needs than a N/A V8.
Yea, with the Palm version of Auto-Tap I am only logging 4-8 values at a time – so I get 3-6 samples per second.


With the Palm version, I do not have a F1 key.


Ummmmmm – the S/C V6 GTP got traded 2 weeks ago for the GTO. So that is why I am now asking about the N/A V8 parms.
So please do tell me what yours are.
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13 year owner
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Ummm, since I don't live in your world, I didn't realize that you traded it two weeks ago. Ummm, from the picture posted, I see a GTP's dash.

Whatever do you use on a Palm for "Help"? F1 is generally help on a PC.

Since I don't have my laptop with me to go through each criteria you have, I don't know off the top of my head what the parameters/ranges are but I will try my best;

Screen 1
KR - don't know the range, but generally anything 2+ degrees is not good
Ignition timing - This is too variable depending on throttle position but at WOT, we're limited to 25/26*
Injector PW - Don't know
MAF Frequency - at WOT I think I see about 10 - 12k Could spike significantly though during shifts, so if you see that (not in linear relation to RPM's), it is simply an anomoly.

Screen 2
ECT - Max is 260* I believe, running 210-220*, optimum 185 - 190* (slightly cooler if increased compression from heads/cam)
Trans temp - Not sure, mine runs about 125 - 150* depending on outside temp
IAT - Idling warm should see 120 - 130*, running should be within 5 - 10* of outside temp. If you can get it cooler, all the better.
LTFT's - Not well versed on trims (as well as STFT's). I look more at the switching rates netting as close to .475mV as possible (Stoich). You can see this if you have the option to graph it as a sine curve (you can do this on a PC by hitting F7). At WOT, they should be in the high .800's to low .900's...optimum .890mV

Screen 3
Misfire Current – Cylinders 1 – 8. This is the current live misfire count. Not a history count (there is also this option). I wouldn’t waste my time monitoring this unless you are experiencing a possible misfire(s). At WOT, unless something is wrong, there should be no misfires. You will commonly see some when starting out from a stop, especially with a manual. That’s Ok. Also, AutoTap measures misfires every 200 rpm. As such, if it detects 2 misfires, it’s really 1. If it shows 10, it’s really 5, etc, etc.

RPM – we are limited to 6,250

TPA = 0 – 100%. WOT being 100%. What is also important is monitoring TP Voltage in conjunction, which at WOT should be something like 4.5 if memory serves me right.

Screen 4
We have two exhaust banks. Each bank contains two O2 sensors. 1 pre-cat (S1), 1 post cat (S2). Bank 1 (B1) is the driver’s side, B2 is the passenger side.

I think you have a typo somehow in the PCM and that duplicate is really monitoring B2S2. Not sure what is going on there.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
WOW - thanks CMNTMXR57. Lots of good info. Now I'll digest this and come up with my 'cheat sheet'.

The cheat sheet I had for the GTP included the Ideal number and the Safe range. This way I had goals to hit while tuning. I was able to do some tuning via a Mini-AFC that allows us to fake out the computer into thinking we are getting more air so it would turn up the fuel. I just found out this may be an option for the LS1, with an adapter (but why do that when there is tuner software for the LS1).
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RedhotGTO said:
With this in place it is easy to monitor and log test runs, out on the back roads, in my never-ending quest for ‘0’ KR…

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There was a lot of information in the thread, Interesting Predator Fact.
His findings were showing considerable KR kicking in at the higher rpms.
I went out in my M6, with the Predator tune in the car, and hooked up the
diagnostics program. While making several runs I could not get any knock
retard to kick in. Zero, nada, at any rpms. Although I am happy I personally
am not getting any KR, I know others are and it's confusing. Any thoughts?
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Yellow Jacket M6 said:
There was a lot of information in the thread, Interesting Predator Fact.
His findings were showing considerable KR kicking in at the higher rpms.
I went out in my M6, with the Predator tune in the car, and hooked up the
diagnostics program. While making several runs I could not get any knock
retard to kick in. Zero, nada, at any rpms. Although I am happy I personally
am not getting any KR, I know others are and it's confusing. Any thoughts?
Hmmmm – I am really too much of a V8 newbie to be offering any advice.

What I have noticed is that on a hot day I am seeing a little KR and I am stock (little = in the .2 to 1.0 range).

I wonder what kind of KR those with the Predator stock tune had before they updated their PCM.


I also am seeing very high IAT numbers after it has sat for a few minutes after a long drive – 120-130 degrees F. That is a bummer. It seems to take a while for them temps to come back down (this is with the stock box). All that hot air can't be helping.

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.2* - 1* of KR isn't necessarily bad. Most LS1's like 25-26 degree's of net timing at WOT. If you're running at 27* of overall timing, then getting 1* of KR, knocking you back to the 25/26* range, you're actually ok. My guess is that actually isn't what you're getting. You're most likely getting 18/19 - 20/21* of overall timing in reality (at least if you're IAT is killing you.

If you do a search on the IAT issue, you'll see a lot of talk about it. The IAT temp is factored heavily into the overall timing number and can scale it back drastically if it's reading a high temp.

Once you get moving, it shoudl fall to within 5-10* of the outside ambient temps.
 
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