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I agree with you cvp, but you're talking to a tough crowd over there because they truly do like the styling that we have outgrown.

When I was at the recent Tampa Auto Show, I couldn't believe how excited all the teens/20somethings where about the STis and Evos. It's all about the Fast & Furious for them.
 

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ok about the 93/02 z28 nothing xciting and ugly wheels no hood design or spoiler also girly wheels /t/a just too much stuff/nose /spoiler and rims so whats the big deal about the gto?? the only tough looking car of those years was the SS camaro including the vette/z06?
 

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13 year owner
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You're wasting your time arguing! These people are happy with an antiquated, low qaulity, albeit fast car on an aged chassis.

I own, one. I love it for what it is, but a world class automobile it isn't. It'll go fast in a straight line, is decent in the twisties, and brakes damn good, makes all the right sounds and will shred tires at the flex of the loud pedal, but that's where all the positives of the car pretty much end. Oh, and it's nice in the summer with the T-Tops off!

It's a bitch to get in and out of, long heavy doors with slow power window motors that like to wear out, big catalytic converter hump in the passenger floor, useless back seat, elongated dash, long nose, useless cargo space (about the only thing I use mine for is chairs and cleaning supplies when I go to shows). It's rear hatch release is almost non-existent and without subframe connectors, twists in the breeze! The brake rotors warp too.

But this is what they're happy with, let them be happy. Ignorance is bliss.

Like I've said repeatedly, I love mine for what it does best, but then again, I only drive mine when it's nice out. If I had to drive it everyday, I'd have gotten rid of it a long time ago.
 

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cvp33 said:
Here I go defending the GTO again vs. the f-body boys.

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?p=852567#post852567
Here is a rabid GTO hater.. (redzed)

I'll link a couple of Post's he has contributed to CamarosZ28 forum.

http://web.camaross.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=194333

http://web.camaross.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=196238

http://web.camaross.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=189287

I think he was frothing at the mouth when he typed he's response in the third link. :slap:
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I just read that entire thread. Same retoric I've been hearing for months. They hate what they don't know. If these guys would just do their homework prior to posting what they hear from others they would be light years ahead. Sad really.

Time for a collective :slap:
 

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Beating a dead horse...
I loved to the look of the later model Firebirds, however never really did like that spoiler or the rims. Somebody in that link said that we are paying more for a car can do thesame thing as a stock F-Body. When I was pricing cars in '01 a WS6 Firebird was $32,000. So we are paying about the same for more car.
 

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Comparing the GTO and the F-Bodys is going to happen, but the fact is they are two different cars. The F-Body was designed as a modern muscle car, while the GTO is a luxury performance car. There is no doubting the numbers, a WS6 Trans Am, Firehawk, or SS Camaro will beat the GTO in almost if not all performance aspects, even handling. The GTO is very close, but from the factory it won't quite keep up. With that said, the GTO will have a lot better chassis to work with. So, if tuned right, the GTO will handle better. With the same power the F-Bodys will be faster, it has less weight to push around. With the brakes, both cars seem that they don't have great brakes, but they are good brakes (from reading reviews the GTO is said to have just average brakes, but stop really good with no feel). Drive any BMW 92+ and you will feel what real brakes are, or Drive a Vette. The debate will last forever, the truth is people are going to like whatever they like (how else can you explain Honda drivers :D ). The GTO is meant to be a 3 series and G35 competitor, and not a F-Body replacement. The GTO is a better car all-around with the F-Body being a more performance oriented vehicle. Hopefully someday I can say that I have my fast car as a LS1 Camaro SS (10's built motor, forced induction and one hell of a lot a fun on the drag strip), and my quick daily driver the GTO (12's getting me speeding tickets).
 

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I paid more for my '99 Firehawk than I am for my GTO. Although the Firehawk will be in the garage long after the GTO is gone. I love both cars and they will look nice next to each other in the garage.
 

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The fact that the magazines gave good reviews, let alone liked the car at all, is impressive to me. I was amazed that they didn't say "here's another waste of time to compare against our glorious BMW's" or go on about the "pushrod engines". Pushrod engines are the devil to the new car mags!! "You may have just ate my lunch with your old pushrod V8 and looked good doing it but I've got burled walnut interior trim and have been on the 10 Best list since 1981!!" Great. Keep your burled walnut. Ass. Go tie your sweater around your neck before you lose it.

BMW's are fine, I sort of like them okay, but the car mags get all gooey over them, so the fact that the Goat impressed them for the most part is quite a deal.:D
 

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13 year owner
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Britus, I couldn't have written that better myself. I personally HATE BMW's because they are solely "status" cars around here!

93 Formula, we are doing nothing other than defending our choice in ordering a GTO. All we hear is complaint, after complaint, after complaint. The biggest complainers are F-Body owners. They are complaining because they feel the GTO replaced their beloved F-Body. While the GTO may take on a different persona than the F-Body, it fills the same shoes as the former Trans Am did. That is the affordable performance car in the lineup regardless of how it does it.

As to which performs better, that's debateable. Back in 1998, most auto rags got 13.9's out of the same LS1 powered F-Body that I have. Yet my best bone stock pass was a 13.7. Now this new GTO comes out, and despite it being heavier, the same rags that ran those high 13's/low 14's in '98 are running a 13.62 in the GTO. So I honestly expect to run quicker than that myself at the track. If that's the case, my GTO will be quicker stock for stock than my F-Body and the other areas of performance where they are nearly equal can only be measured via specific equipment.
 

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I agree with you guys 100%. The GTO is a great car. It is what it is and the F-Bodys are what they are. Honestly they are quite different cars, but I like the way that GM is going. They are making a better all-around sports car. It may not perform as well, but I will guarentee that the aftermarket will prove that the GTO is a better car for performance (I'm putting aside drag strip, because either car will produce what I want it to) if you put the same aftermarket parts on the car. In handling, the F-Bodys may be better stock (in numbers, and maybe not on the track I don't know), but the GTO has so much more to go with. The only thing I don't like about the GTO is the weight 300-400 lbs more than an F-Body which was already a heavy car. If the GTO trimmed some of the fat away (maybe offer more of a base model or a race model with about 200 less pounds on the car without giving up all of the comforts) it would be a car on the top of my list to buy.
As for BMWs being status cars, they are. The only model I like is the M3, and even that is just alright. Now, the M3 is one hell of a performance car. I know, I race one. The only car that I have raced that is better (stock vs stock) is a Corvette C5 (any) and some C4s. Then after that, most BMWs are just a status car that are not as reliable (newer BMWs throw rods or bust cranks all the time) or as nice as most people think.
 

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my thoughts

First off..new to the site..seems to be pretty level headed people here. :)

I am IN LOVE with the new GTO and would love to own one soon. Gonna try my best to do so. Its the best thing to come out of detroit since the Vette!!!

I do own a 99 T/A and love it...but I will be the first to tell you it has its down falls. Just like any car. I dont know why people choose to badmouth a car other than the fact that many of them are in fact SCARED TO DEATH it will be a far more superior car...which in this case from what I have seen/heard...hell yes it will be haha!!

I would be scared to run one in my T/A with a good driver. Im sure it will have things we all want to change on it...but hey..what vehicle do you all buy and not change ANYTHING on?? ;)

Just my .02
 
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