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I am anxiously awaiting for my Predator From Tyburne, I was just wondering if anyone has any before and after Dyno #'s from the Predator?
 

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Not yet. I do have before numbers. My Predator is coming next week, so soon after that I will get some numbers after install and after a tune.
 

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Knight Errant
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Not Dyno...but

Hardware said:
I am anxiously awaiting for my Predator From Tyburne, I was just wondering if anyone has any before and after Dyno #'s from the Predator?
You might want to read over Trooper's Before and After stuff in the Drag Racing section. He made a run without, then one with. It's far from conclusive, just the one run apiece so far, but sure is an eye opener. :D
 

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Thats not a bad increase.... I would be happy with that.. Def. a nice start.
 

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Old Goat said:
You might want to read over Trooper's Before and After stuff in the Drag Racing section. He made a run without, then one with. It's far from conclusive, just the one run apiece so far, but sure is an eye opener. :D
Old Goat,

That really isn't a good comparison since his 60 ft times (traction) are so different between the two runs. He could have had those differences without making any modifications. If someone wants to use the drag strip to test modifications, then you should make about 5-7 runs and take an average. Then add the diablo and make another 5-7 runs and take the average again. That would be a much better comparison.

Comparing one run each.......WAY to many variables!!!!!!
 

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Even tho the base performance file is a good start it is not perfect for every vehicle. The name of the device is the Predator Tuner. It helps with Tuning the vehicle.... the best thing to do is to get the car on the dyno and see how its running and make any adjustments needed.
 

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JB,

I tend do disagree with your assesment that this is not a good comparison. I think his drag strip experiment was a good indicator of a horsepower increase. 60 foot times have little to do with horsepower increases. Trap speed is the given indicator for any power increase and there seemed to be a substantial one.

Love the board guys. Been lurking for a few months now. Not a goat owner YET but the 2005's look promising. Been bracket racing a 92 Mustang for 5 or 6 years now and am ready for a change.

HHM
 

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Hehateme said:
JB,

I tend do disagree with your assesment that this is not a good comparison. I think his drag strip experiment was a good indicator of a horsepower increase. 60 foot times have little to do with horsepower increases. Trap speed is the given indicator for any power increase and there seemed to be a substantial one.

Love the board guys. Been lurking for a few months now. Not a goat owner YET but the 2005's look promising. Been bracket racing a 92 Mustang for 5 or 6 years now and am ready for a change.

HHM
Hehateme,

Yes but if you've been bracket racing for 5 or 6 years, you also know that increased wheel spin (bad 60 ft) will always result in higher trap speed!!!!

Thus I stand by my original post........this was a bad comparison and doesn't tell me anything. Not saying that the Programmer doesn't increase power, just that I can't put much stock in his tests.

-JB
 

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DOG
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Also realize that the performance in any tuning may not been seen on the dyno. In my experience the WOT tuning on the LS1 is pretty good, but the partial throttle timing tables have a LOT of room for play. Not only have I increased my gas mileage by at least 15-20% but the car feels better at these places that you'll never see on a dyno or at the track. Just because you can't quantify it in a 1/4 mile time or a HP number doesn't mean it isn't improved.
 

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tiggerfan said:
Also realize that the performance in any tuning may not been seen on the dyno. In my experience the WOT tuning on the LS1 is pretty good, but the partial throttle timing tables have a LOT of room for play. Not only have I increased my gas mileage by at least 15-20% but the car feels better at these places that you'll never see on a dyno or at the track. Just because you can't quantify it in a 1/4 mile time or a HP number doesn't mean it isn't improved.
I Couldn't agree with you more tiggerfan and don't doubt that one bit....

-JB
 

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Do not reply to this email, you will not receive a response.

Post your question again on the DiabloSport website instead.

************************************************************





This is a reply to your question from 2004-06-10 05:30



CATEGORY: Predator

QUESTION: [Yesterday I purchased the Predator Power Programmer for my 2004
Pontiac GTO, with the 4 speed automatic transmission. I am very happy with the
results. I was wondering what the horsepower/torque gains are for the unit?
Thank you.]



------------------------------------------------------------



ANSWER:

Dear Michael,

You are probably looking at about 10-20 rwhp and 20ft/lbs for the LS-1 engine.

Thank you for your interest in DiabloSport!
Stay tuned,
Johan, a proud member of the DiabloSport Support Team

************************************************************

Do not reply to this email, you will not receive a response.

Post your question again on the DiabloSport website instead
 

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JB,

You don't pick up 4 mph with your 60'. You pick up ET up to your 330 mark, and mph after that, generally speaking.

I am ok with the fact that you disagree, more power to you!

HHM
 

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Hehateme said:
JB,

You don't pick up 4 mph with your 60'. You pick up ET up to your 330 mark, and mph after that, generally speaking.

I am ok with the fact that you disagree, more power to you!

HHM
I've got tons of time slips that say otherwise, but I guess we could disagree all day. So be it and good luck to you....
 

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Welcome to the board Hehateme. Wasnt that an XFL player's name?
 

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tiggerfan said:
Also realize that the performance in any tuning may not been seen on the dyno. In my experience the WOT tuning on the LS1 is pretty good, but the partial throttle timing tables have a LOT of room for play. Not only have I increased my gas mileage by at least 15-20% but the car feels better at these places that you'll never see on a dyno or at the track. Just because you can't quantify it in a 1/4 mile time or a HP number doesn't mean it isn't improved.
By no means do I have the experience you do but wouldn't a dyno tune which peaks your hp/torque numbers be the best you can get? How could doing it by 'feel' be better?
 

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mlc said:
By no means do I have the experience you do but wouldn't a dyno tune which peaks your hp/torque numbers be the best you can get? How could doing it by 'feel' be better?
The dyno tune is dealing with WOT strictly. The full tune should also deal with all of the partial throttle fuel settings and lower load spark tables as well. Tuning the fuel and spark tables at the lower levels will improve response and fuel mileage at those points as well. Since you are burning the same amount of fuel, but getting more power from it with the better spark timing, you get more mileage. The result is the car performs better with less throttle. Obviously you wouldn't quantify it since previously to get the same performance you'd just mash the throttle a bit more.

That is what complete tuning is about, and why you can't just assume that the peak dyno numbers will complete the tune. They are a vital part of the process, but strictly tuning towards them is why the phrase "dyno queen" exists.
 

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tiggerfan said:
The dyno tune is dealing with WOT strictly. The full tune should also deal with all of the partial throttle fuel settings and lower load spark tables as well. Tuning the fuel and spark tables at the lower levels will improve response and fuel mileage at those points as well. Since you are burning the same amount of fuel, but getting more power from it with the better spark timing, you get more mileage. The result is the car performs better with less throttle. Obviously you wouldn't quantify it since previously to get the same performance you'd just mash the throttle a bit more.

That is what complete tuning is about, and why you can't just assume that the peak dyno numbers will complete the tune. They are a vital part of the process, but strictly tuning towards them is why the phrase "dyno queen" exists.
So in the near future I plan on going back to where I had my dyno run done. These guys are going to tune my car with the predator. Should I be looking for a tune at WOT and not at WOT, or should I only expect WOT tune?
 

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mlc said:
So in the near future I plan on going back to where I had my dyno run done. These guys are going to tune my car with the predator. Should I be looking for a tune at WOT and not at WOT, or should I only expect WOT tune?
Ask em. They'll tell you exactly what they're tuning for. Remember that tuning the spark tables to their limit requires driving and logging, over a reasonable period of time, however, they should have a clue as to what is a safe amount of bump to plug in.

What you want to ask about, is if they are adjusting the Fuel Ratio table and the Spark Advance tables. If they are adjusting the spark advance tables, ask if its across the whole table, or just the higher load areas.

The GTO *WILL* need wideband o2 tuning as well to fix the PE table (Mine is corrected, but the new values are reserved for my local shop - sorry can't publish them, I'm sure someone else will) since the GTO runs WAY too rich at the higher rpm settings at WOT. If anyone is in the Tampa area and feels like spending a few hours with me, I will be more then happy to help you out.

Beyond this, there isn't much to tuning a car. Basically the steps are as follows.

1. Get the Long Term Fuel Trims negative on average, especially in cells 13-15. The reason for this is because if the cells are positive going into WOT, they will remain positive, but if they are negative, they will go to 0. When fuel trim is 0 at WOT, you are working strictly off the PE table and its much easier to tune. The computer will adjust in the right direction, but you want the computer thinking it needs to take away fuel all the time. instead of adding it. Default the GTO will be about +4.6 going into WOT, which FURTHER exacerbates the problems with the default PE table.

2. Adjust the timing tables to the limit of knock. I'm STILL not convinced *0* knock is the goal, since knock retard will increment in tenths of degrees, whereas the timing table is adjusted in whole degrees only. This means that with knock retard you can be at 37.8 degrees of timing (a 38 setting with .2 degrees of KR) vs 37 with no knock retard.

3. Once all this is done, get a Wideband o2 and get the air fuel mixture constant across the entire spectrum. Dyno runs will usually include wideband o2.

4. Repeat from step 1 until you aren't making changes anymore.
 

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tiggerfan said:
Ask em. They'll tell you exactly what they're tuning for. Remember that tuning the spark tables to their limit requires driving and logging, over a reasonable period of time, however, they should have a clue as to what is a safe amount of bump to plug in.

What you want to ask about, is if they are adjusting the Fuel Ratio table and the Spark Advance tables. If they are adjusting the spark advance tables, ask if its across the whole table, or just the higher load areas.

The GTO *WILL* need wideband o2 tuning as well to fix the PE table (Mine is corrected, but the new values are reserved for my local shop - sorry can't publish them, I'm sure someone else will) since the GTO runs WAY too rich at the higher rpm settings at WOT. If anyone is in the Tampa area and feels like spending a few hours with me, I will be more then happy to help you out.

Beyond this, there isn't much to tuning a car. Basically the steps are as follows.

1. Get the Long Term Fuel Trims negative on average, especially in cells 13-15. The reason for this is because if the cells are positive going into WOT, they will remain positive, but if they are negative, they will go to 0. When fuel trim is 0 at WOT, you are working strictly off the PE table and its much easier to tune. The computer will adjust in the right direction, but you want the computer thinking it needs to take away fuel all the time. instead of adding it. Default the GTO will be about +4.6 going into WOT, which FURTHER exacerbates the problems with the default PE table.

2. Adjust the timing tables to the limit of knock. I'm STILL not convinced *0* knock is the goal, since knock retard will increment in tenths of degrees, whereas the timing table is adjusted in whole degrees only. This means that with knock retard you can be at 37.8 degrees of timing (a 38 setting with .2 degrees of KR) vs 37 with no knock retard.

3. Once all this is done, get a Wideband o2 and get the air fuel mixture constant across the entire spectrum. Dyno runs will usually include wideband o2.

4. Repeat from step 1 until you aren't making changes anymore.
More questions....

My last dyno run showed the air/fuel mix at 15(is that %?) @ 2.5krpm and dropping (on the chart) to [email protected] and [email protected] I remember him saying 13 is ideal. Agree??

Whats the PE table and what did you mean by cells 13-15?

(an educated consumer is a good thing :thumbs: )
 

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mlc said:
More questions....

My last dyno run showed the air/fuel mix at 15(is that %?) @ 2.5krpm and dropping (on the chart) to [email protected] and [email protected] I remember him saying 13 is ideal. Agree??

Whats the PE table and what did you mean by cells 13-15?

(an educated consumer is a good thing :thumbs: )
13 is correct.

The cells refer to the fueling table cells. Basically the computer is loaded with cells that tell how much fuel to dump into the engine on certain conditions (load and rpm) and then the fuel trim adjusts that based on o2 readings. Cells 13 through 15 are the fuel table cells you'll be in right before you hit WOT.

The PE table is the performance enrichment table. At WOT it basically takes over from the o2 sensors as far as determining the amount of fuel going into the engine, and the computer ignores the o2 sensors at this point. If everything on the car is done right, it, and it along, will determine how rich or lean you run at wide open throttle.
 
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