LS1GTO.com Forums banner

1 - 20 of 43 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
25 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
PLEASE BARE WITH ME AND READ IT ALL BASICALLY THERE IS NO RESISTANCE ON THE PEDAL AND I CANT PUT IT IN GEAR


ok let me start i bought a 06 gto about 6 months ago and was told the clutch was fairly new and that it was a racing clutch so after about 4 months the clutch had start rattling and then slipping until the car no longer drove..........now i had no car to drive so i had to sell my beloved AR!% just to get the money to fixx my gto

so i started to call different places to find a good deal on getting the clutch replaced and after calling a few i found out most shops couldnt do it for atleast 2 weeks but then i remebered a trans shop out in the boondocks where i had boughta nova 2 years back. so i called them up was told he could have it done the next day for a price o $1200 but thAT included a complete new clutch kit and a fly wheel along with the master cylnder ....so hearing it could be done the next day i brought my car in asap



2 days went by so i called in and he said he would have It done in3 hours
SO I GAVE HIM THE BENIFT OF THE DOUBT for taking so long considering he was an old man and that his shop didnt have lifts so he would jack up the front and have to lay on his back to to the job and also didnt have airtools like alot of shops so 2 hours later got the call that it was done

and he explained that the clutch still had 50% of the tread/brake like padding left on it and that the problem was my flywheel but seeing that i already paid for all the new parts he went ahead and put in the new flywheel and clutch ....


now i got in and RIGHT WAY NOTICED THAT THE CLUTCH HAD ALMOST NO RESISTANCE WHEN I PUSHED IT DOWN IT WAS SO EASY IT COULD BE PUSHED DOWN AND HEALD IN WITH ALMOST NO PRESSURE

SO RIGHT AWAY ASKED HIM WHY IT WAS LIKE THIS!! and that it orignaly had a very very stiff hard to push in clutch before it went out .. he said this was normal and that it was harder before becuase it had been a racing clutch and that its easier to push down now becuase it is a stock clutch ...

so not really knowing much about clutches assumed he was telling the truth so i started her up pushed in the clutch put her in 1st and after letting the clutch out slowly the car began to go and once it was fully let out i gassed it and the slipping was gone and it shifted fine but still felt odd to me how easy the clutch went in and how little risistance it had

2 DAYS LATTER DECIDED TO CHECK THE COLOR OF THE FLUID AND FOUND OUT IT WAS STILL DIRTY WITH GRAYESH STUFF IN THE RES LIKE IT WAS BEFORE I WENT TO HIM AND I THOUGHT IT SHOULD BE CLEAR CONSIDERING EVERYTHING AND
IT WAS A WEEKEND SO I COLDNT CALL TO ASK HIM WHY IT WAS LIKE THAT AND BY MONDAY FORGOT ABOUT IT


NOW LAST NIGHT I WAS ON THE FREEWAY RACING AND EVERTHING WAS GOING OK AND RIGHTAT 5500RPM WENT TO SHIFT ONLY TO FIND OUT THAT THE PEDAL NOW HAD NO RESISTANCE AT ALL AND THAT I COULDNT PUT IT IN GEAR WHEN I PUSHED DOWN THE CLUTCH IT DIDNT MATTER IT WAS ACTING LIKE IT WASNT BEING PUSHED DOWN!!!!

LUCKLY I REMBERED THAT I COULD GET IT IN GEAR WITHOUTH USING THE CLUTCH BY GETTING THE RPMS TO BE EVEN WITH MY SPEED FOR THAT GEAR AND MANAGED TO GET HOME WITHOUT SHIFTING

ANYONE KNOW WHT MY PROBKEM MIGHT BE ?
 

·
Worthless reject member
Joined
·
40,443 Posts
never replace one component in a clutch system with one of these setups. replace everything, the flywheel/clutch disk/pressure plate, pilot bearing, and the slave cylinder. make sure it is bled properly. make sure you check if you need shims, although if you are putting in a factory replacement clutch and didn't originally have shims you shouldn't need them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
never replace one component in a clutch system with one of these setups. replace everything, the flywheel/clutch disk/pressure plate, pilot bearing, and the slave cylinder. make sure it is bled properly. make sure you check if you need shims, although if you are putting in a factory replacement clutch and didn't originally have shims you shouldn't need them.
he said he replaced all of those things are on the invoice sorry i forgot to mention that ..also wondering might it have been bled wong and that might be why its not working and is it possible to still have that drty greyish fluid 2 days after he did the job and could that be a sign that he didnt replace everything like he said
 

·
Seriously?
Joined
·
1,552 Posts
ps what are shims?

Chances are that it is not bled properly, if those parts were even replaced at all. Assuming everything was replaced, then a good and thorough bleeding of the clutch fluid should take care of the problem. This would be a good time to install a braided speed bleeder clutch line so that job will easier to do.

The shims that are being referred to are for the slave cylinder inside the trans. Whenever you install any kind of new clutch assembly on the GTO, along with a new slave cylinder, it is a good idea to measure the slave cylinder clearance which is basically contact distance of the throw out bearing against the pressure plate fingers. If the distance is not within a reasonable tolerance than the slave cylinder can be shimmed to move it out a little to get into tolerance. This will have an effect on the clutch pedal action also, but being that the fluid is still dirty, I would flush and bleed it first to see what happens.

Word of advice on buying any sports car, particularly a 2004-2006 GTO... don't do it unless its repair and maintenance history can be proven and you have some extra cash set aside to repair basics and to maintain it as needed. If you are willing to proceed without history, then be prepared to sink some money into it for major stuff like this. Even if parts and labor receipts can be shown, that doesn't necessarily mean the job was done right, hence where you are now with this. I am not blaming you, but it sucks to read shit like this. Hopefully the car is in good shape otherwise.
 

·
Worthless reject member
Joined
·
40,443 Posts
he said he replaced all of those things are on the invoice sorry i forgot to mention that ..also wondering might it have been bled wong and that might be why its not working and is it possible to still have that drty greyish fluid 2 days after he did the job and could that be a sign that he didnt replace everything like he said
i would think that he lied and didn't replace what he said he did, or at least just threw the parts on and failed to properly bleed the system, thus still having the olf fluid in the reservoir.

or, you have another issue. with my first clutch, i had an issue with the clutch overheating and it would suddenly lock me out of gear, and the clutch fluid would turn dark. after i bled it clear, the same thing would happen again during high rpm use. it would fail to disengage and start blocking me from shifting after two or three high rpm shifts. when i checked the fluid, it was dark again. it did not leak, and it shifted fine at lower rpms and under moderate throttle.

to this day i am not 100 percent sure of what was going on, i suspect it was the pressure plate, but a complete change of parts and proper bleed fixed it. it is possible you obtained a faulty new component and it is causing you issues.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
9,468 Posts
An old guy out in the boondocks lying on his back is not who you want doing this job.
Old fluid indicates that the hydraulic system was never cracked open, otherwise the fluid would have had to be replaced.
It's a known issue that high-stress driving such as racing can heat up the clutch fluid in the slave enough to boil it if there's any water in it, which there probably is if the fluid is old. This will cause a temporarly loss of pedal pressure until the fluid cools.
Unfortunately this is a perfect example of the old vector- good, fast, cheap, pick any two. You actually only got one, fast, although that price wouldn't have been bad if all the stated work was actually done.
At this point your best course of action is to cut your losses with the guy in the woods and find a more reputable place with a lift that can do it right. We don't know where you are but if you go to the regional forum for your area you can post in there and ask for a reference for a good local shop. Hopefully there will still be some people there to read and respond, this place is pretty dead nowadays.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
144 Posts
If the fluid is still full, and it is dark and nasty, he did not replace the clutch master cylinder and he screwed you without a kiss. if he replaced the master cylinder, he would have had to put clean fluid in it, and add more fluid as he bled the system. sounds like he got 1200.00 and you got nothing out of it
 

·
Registered
2006 Pontiac GTO
Joined
·
31 Posts
You got hosed. First of all, from what you described, it sounds like your original issue was with the slave cylinder. But, as stated before, if you’re there then you need to go ahead and replace the flywheel, clutch/pressure plate assembly, pilot bearing, slave cylinder and throw in a speed bleed line. I’d also look over that rear main seal just to be on the safe side. If the clutch fluid is dirty, I don’t think he did the work described.

In order to remove the tranny, you have to remove the clutch fluid lines from the slave. Especially to get the tranny far enough back to get a clutch/pressure plate assembly off and the new reinstalled and properly aligned. I know this because I have done this in my garage with my car jacked as high up as I can working off my back. Good luck getting it up and running.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
159 Posts
I don't see how you could even get the trans moved back far enough to replace any clutch components without disconnecting the hydraulic line. And as already mentioned, no matter what it doesn't sound like the slave was replaced. The fluid does get dirty very quickly with a new clutch disc because of all the dust but I wouldn't think it would happen that fast. Also depending on how long ago this was, you should still be in clutch break-in mode, going easy on it for 500 miles of stop and go.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Chances are that it is not bled properly, if those parts were even replaced at all. Assuming everything was replaced, then a good and thorough bleeding of the clutch fluid should take care of the problem. This would be a good time to install a braided speed bleeder clutch line so that job will easier to do.

The shims that are being referred to are for the slave cylinder inside the trans. Whenever you install any kind of new clutch assembly on the GTO, along with a new slave cylinder, it is a good idea to measure the slave cylinder clearance which is basically contact distance of the throw out bearing against the pressure plate fingers. If the distance is not within a reasonable tolerance than the slave cylinder can be shimmed to move it out a little to get into tolerance. This will have an effect on the clutch pedal action also, but being that the fluid is still dirty, I would flush and bleed it first to see what happens.

Word of advice on buying any sports car, particularly a 2004-2006 GTO... don't do it unless its repair and maintenance history can be proven and you have some extra cash set aside to repair basics and to maintain it as needed. If you are willing to proceed without history, then be prepared to sink some money into it for major stuff like this. Even if parts and labor receipts can be shown, that doesn't necessarily mean the job was done right, hence where you are now with this. I am not blaming you, but it sucks to read shit like this. Hopefully the car is in good shape otherwise.
itoday i decided to start my car and see if it was still the same and noticed that when i try to put it in gear with the pedal fully pused down that it feels like the car starts to move foward the harder i tried forcing it but stil wouldnt go in and it confused me becuase there was no grinding sounds and i thought there should have been
 

·
Seriously?
Joined
·
1,552 Posts
itoday i decided to start my car and see if it was still the same and noticed that when i try to put it in gear with the pedal fully pused down that it feels like the car starts to move foward the harder i tried forcing it but stil wouldnt go in and it confused me becuase there was no grinding sounds and i thought there should have been
You have a couple of choices that have already been stated then... Either go back to the guy that you paid to do the job and make him figure it out, or go to a different shop and get a diagnosis and get the car fixed right. If it turns out that the first shop didn't do squat and took your money, I'd be their worst nightmare trying to get my money back. A competent shop/tech will be able to tell if stuff has taken apart once before. As stated, you aren't getting the trans down far if the hydraulic lines are not removed first.

I would try to bleed the system and see what happens but it is starting to sound more and more like you got ripped off. I have to pull my trans on the ground and I am dreading doing it but it can be done. I just can't see a "shop" doing that on a regular basis. I can't see why the slave cylinder would not be replaced if the guy did in fact remove the trans and do the work... it is only held in by 2 screws with the 2 lines attached to it.

My advice to you at this point is to have it looked at again by someone else and go from there. You may have to go back to the 1st shop and demand a refund. I know this sucks but your car is basically a driveway ornament until it is repaired right.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
You have a couple of choices that have already been stated then... Either go back to the guy that you paid to do the job and make him figure it out, or go to a different shop and get a diagnosis and get the car fixed right. If it turns out that the first shop didn't do squat and took your money, I'd be their worst nightmare trying to get my money back. A competent shop/tech will be able to tell if stuff has taken apart once before. As stated, you aren't getting the trans down far if the hydraulic lines are not removed first.

I would try to bleed the system and see what happens but it is starting to sound more and more like you got ripped off. I have to pull my trans on the ground and I am dreading doing it but it can be done. I just can't see a "shop" doing that on a regular basis. I can't see why the slave cylinder would not be replaced if the guy did in fact remove the trans and do the work... it is only held in by 2 screws with the 2 lines attached to it.

My advice to you at this point is to have it looked at again by someone else and go from there. You may have to go back to the 1st shop and demand a refund. I know this sucks but your car is basically a driveway ornament until it is repaired right.
i hear what your saying and appreciate the advice i am hoping to god it just needs to be rebled and if that dont work try and get my money back and do the whole thing over again myself ! ive always been good at following instructions and should have done it myself . ive done a few trans swaps on a few hondas perfectly fine just hatted the idea of having to work on my back and mess up my hands and thought it would have been better to let a expereinced shop do it an save me the headache but now regretting it smh :cry: and again thanks for replying p.s just had one more ? should the fluid level in the res rise when the clutch pedal is pressed down?mine dosent budge and thought it should like thebrake fluid does when you hit your brake
s
 

·
Worthless reject member
Joined
·
40,443 Posts
I don't see how you could even get the trans moved back far enough to replace any clutch components without disconnecting the hydraulic line. And as already mentioned, no matter what it doesn't sound like the slave was replaced. The fluid does get dirty very quickly with a new clutch disc because of all the dust but I wouldn't think it would happen that fast. Also depending on how long ago this was, you should still be in clutch break-in mode, going easy on it for 500 miles of stop and go.
That is a good point, that stuff will drain quick.

Unless he put a plug on the end of the line to keep it from draining and tried "bench bleeding" the slave, and then slapped the lines together real fast, lol.
 

·
Worthless reject member
Joined
·
40,443 Posts
i hear what your saying and appreciate the advice i am hoping to god it just needs to be rebled and if that dont work try and get my money back and do the whole thing over again myself ! ive always been good at following instructions and should have done it myself . ive done a few trans swaps on a few hondas perfectly fine just hatted the idea of having to work on my back and mess up my hands and thought it would have been better to let a expereinced shop do it an save me the headache but now regretting it smh :cry: and again thanks for replying p.s just had one more ? should the fluid level in the res rise when the clutch pedal is pressed down?mine dosent budge and thought it should like thebrake fluid does when you hit your brake
s
Bleeding it is easy and free if you have some spare brake fluid, but you gotta get on your back and get dirty...
 

·
Worthless reject member
Joined
·
40,443 Posts
The only other thing i can think of is the jerk reused your old clutch fluid because he was cheap. Which, it if was old and absorbed enough moisture, would cause this issue.
 

·
Powdercoat all of it
Joined
·
225 Posts
I don't see how you could even get the trans moved back far enough to replace any clutch components without disconnecting the hydraulic line. And as already mentioned, no matter what it doesn't sound like the slave was replaced. The fluid does get dirty very quickly with a new clutch disc because of all the dust but I wouldn't think it would happen that fast. Also depending on how long ago this was, you should still be in clutch break-in mode, going easy on it for 500 miles of stop and go.
On my 02 camaro, I had to do it once. The quick release fitting sleeve was crushed, so I basically had to get the trans out by slipping it back a few inches, snaking in a ratchet, and loosening the two slave bolts. Slid it off the input, then pulled the trans. Awful, really sucked. But can be done.

Based on dirty fluid and change in pedal, I'd say he got a new clutch and flywheel, same master and slave. If the mechanic said 3hrs, he probably forgot the new slave and master. Bleeding without a speed bleeder could take that long with no help and working on the ground.

Finally, op, you're not innocent in all of this. I know you're new to the gto, but there is a break in procedure for a new clutch. 5500rpm isn't in the instructions, fyi. Look up a clutch break in procedure for your next one. The previous owner may have beat on the gto, but sounds like you're not exactly being nice to her.
 

·
Registered
2006 Pontiac GTO
Joined
·
383 Posts
I agree that if the fluid is dirty, no hydraulic components were touched at all. There is so little fluid in the system that it is impossible to change anything, bleed the system, and have dirty fluid in the reservoir. 3 pumps of the clutch pedal during bleeding empties the reservoir completely. Maybe it is possible to detach the slave from the transmission while removing it and not have to undo hydraulic lines to change the clutch, but even so that slave wasn't changed and you were told that it was.

If anyone who call themselves a mechanic re-used old fluid to fill up the system... I have no words.
 
1 - 20 of 43 Posts
Top