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Member: Black Sheep Squadron
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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Ok, so I gained 31 RWHP, not too shabby considering I'm still going through Flowmasters. From the questions that I've seen, most people wanna know the fit and finish. *EDIT* As I was talking to a friend, I told him even if I make 5-7 less RWHP then the other long tubes isnt it worth it? I can save myself the $600 and put it towards a FAST, or Pulley ETC.

I give this an 8 of 10, as there are a few hoops to jump through. This is my first set of long tubes, I normally go mids, or shorties, but I've always wanted to see what all the talk about longtubes was. The fit and finish of the PaceSetters get a 9 of 10. The headers are fine, but the connection pipes needed a little grinding for the headers to fit in, not hard at all just time consuming. With mass production of these, I guess I should expect that, but once again, only 9 of 10. This is probably common with most long tubes, I have heard horror storys from the other long tube installs. So maybe this should get a 10 of 10, I can only say its not perfect.

Gaskets were top notch, copper, and if you dont know much PS started with a white paper gasket, and they leaked like all hell, trust me. Much Much Better gasket now. Bolts are the standard size of all the kits from them. The connection to the cat back pipes use the paper gaskets, but since there is no real pressure, they should hold up, I'll find out soon enough.

GO COATED! Pay the extra $100 or however much it is to get these things coated. I needed them fast to test, and get some results, dyno and pictures here. They dont look remotely close to that nice black finish thats on them in the pictures, all of that has burnt off. Not pretty to look at but they perform. I will be ordering a set of coated soon, and sell these non coated ones.

DIRECTIONS: Great directions, pretty straight forward, FOLLOW THEM, dont skip steps because in the long run you'll have to go back and do them. If you wanna use the O2 extensions make sure to cut/splice wire them up BEFORE you put them back on the long tube. Reason being: the O2's tend to rust up, I only had 9K miles on my car, so the O2's werent too tough, but the driver side was a pain in the ass, lots of WD40 on it to pull it off. Once installed on the header, I had to just wire them on the ground.

Install notes: You will need to pull the steering knuckle, and drop the rack and pinion. You will also need to grind the mid pipes, they are not finished as good as the headers. Make sure you have power steering fluid handy! You have to pull the two lines coming into the rack and pinion. Putting these back in after the header install is a pain, you will need to line it up with your hands from the top of the car, as you can see right into the rack. Once lined up get under the car and work your hand in there. Shorty wrenchs will be handy, but not needed. Take your time, and unless you work out at the gym alot you may need a few rests after making 1/8 turns to tighten. *EDIT* Some people say you do not need to remove these lines, and I have taken off the front motor mount, and jacked up the motor and was able to leave them on.

CUTING OR BENDING! There are two bolts on each side of the car that hold a bracket on. *EDIT* THEY ARE THE BOTTOM ONES! If you look in the pictures you will see them almost right next to the header. These will hit your header possibly bending, or puncturing them. Since you know about it now, when you pull the stock manifolds you should cut them off with a die grinder, sawzall, or whatever you can. Once you put the headers back on, it makes for a Pain in the ass to bed or cut. If you dont do this, you will regret it.

SOUND: They are loud, I have flowmaster super 40's and I cant drive now. I have to granny shift at 2300 RPM or the headers over power EVERYTHING. I have scared the crap out of people flying by them, or sitting at the light and punching it. Being that there are no cats, you might wanna add a bullet muffler, or Magnaflow glass pack to quiet it down. For those of you with no smog laws, or noise pollution states, THESE ARE GONNA BE A BLAST!

Install Time: 4hrs 15 minutes on the floor with Jack stands.

On a lift I dont imagine it would take you more then 2 hours 30 mins. Probably less.

Bottom Line:

Kooks and Stainless Works Watch out, these are gonna hurt your sales.

PRICE: $349.99 + Connection Pipes + Shipping. (Honestly how could you go wrong?)

*EDIT* Saw a sponsor selling them for $299, GTFO here! So cheap...

Contact Chad @ Gravanatuning.com

Flash99
 

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Member: Black Sheep Squadron
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Discussion Starter · #2 · (Edited)
And Some More Pics...
 

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Wow, those look pretty darn good.
I like the install pics. They show angle not seen in any other post. Gives me a bit more info for a longtube install.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
proxses said:
Wow, those look pretty darn good.
I like the install pics. They show angle not seen in any other post. Gives me a bit more info for a longtube install.

Well I have tons more install pics, these are a few that basically show most of whats needed. I'll be adding more info, as I remember it, or find other pics.
 

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Crack Open a Fresh Baileys
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Flash99 said:
SOUND: They are loud, I have flowmaster super 40's and I cant drive now. I have to granny shift at 2300 RPM or the headers over power EVERYTHING. I have scared the crap out of people flying by them, or sitting at the light and punching it. Being that there are no cats, you might wanna add a bullet muffler, or Magnaflow glass pack to quiet it down. For those of you with no smog laws, or noise pollution states, THESE ARE GONNA BE A BLAST!
I'm noticing a lot of folks saying the sound with Super 40's is pretty loud with headers. Is it because so far, most have gone catless or is it just gonna be massively loud no matter what? I ask, because I'm Super40/Straight Pipes and I wouldn't mind a little more volume, but if it just gets ridiculous..

And also, I'm not tryin' to step on any toes, but I'm still confused on what all is done to your car. I noticed your spat with that guy in the other thread and it left me even more confused than I was to begin with.
Can you list exactly what all was done to your car before the headers for dummies like me?
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Kylan said:
I'm noticing a lot of folks saying the sound with Super 40's is pretty loud with headers. Is it because so far, most have gone catless or is it just gonna be massively loud no matter what? I ask, because I'm Super40/Straight Pipes and I wouldn't mind a little more volume, but if it just gets ridiculous..

And also, I'm not tryin' to step on any toes, but I'm still confused on what all is done to your car. I noticed your spat with that guy in the other thread and it left me even more confused than I was to begin with.
Can you list exactly what all was done to your car before the headers for dummies like me?

Basically just the cam, and long tubes. As stated in the other thread car with cam untuned pulled 341 or so. With headers and cam untuned 371, with my tune that I installed I pulled 398.83, I wanted 400 so bad, but needed the air to cool down, not good to try to get mega numbers in the desert heat.

My cam is actually mild, and I passed California Smog with a measurement of 49 of a maximum 49 allowed.

Oh also I have the patriot dual gold valvetrain, thats not helping HP though. All of the mods in my sig are pending Fridays install, with new dynograph going up next Wednesday.

So gains would be:

Long Tubes 30RWHP
Tune: 28.83

I dont know why someone would call B.S. On these gains, its pretty common.
 

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Crack Open a Fresh Baileys
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Ahhh, okay!
Thank you for clearin' that up for me.. So basically they perform exactly like any other header. :D

That's such a crazy good deal.. Is there any reason NOT to get them? Are these things going to fall apart after a couple years or something? ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Kylan said:
Ahhh, okay!
Thank you for clearin' that up for me.. So basically they perform exactly like any other header. :D

That's such a crazy good deal.. Is there any reason NOT to get them? Are these things going to fall apart after a couple years or something? ;)

Who knows if they are gonna fall apart, I would suggest you get the coated just incase. They look horrible after the shiny black paint burns off, but I'm in it for the HP not the bling factor. Coated probably keeps the under temps down too, and of course our cars are prone to heat soak.
 

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not a pontiac its a HOLDEN !!
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the paint isnt a high temp paint , i know there is a sticker that says that , my cavs did before it was coated , in the cav site , its the ceramic coated or nothing , lol

the coating will help alot more with under hood temps

most headers ive ever delt with the paint burns off , even when they said it was high temp , and even if you strip them , then follow the high temp paint directions , ive had the paint burn off using 1500 degree paint
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
s/c'd cav said:
the paint isnt a high temp paint , i know there is a sticker that says that , my cavs did before it was coated , in the cav site , its the ceramic coated or nothing , lol

the coating will help alot more with under hood temps

most headers ive ever delt with the paint burns off , even when they said it was high temp , and even if you strip them , then follow the high temp paint directions , ive had the paint burn off using 1500 degree paint

Well they dont look "Terrible" just not as good as when they were nice and shinny. Thats why I say go coated if you can. If your not into looks just performance, then painted would be just fine.
 

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these look really nice.....thanks for the right up.....were the mid pipes really that much of a pain in the ass to install though?
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
speeddemon said:
these look really nice.....thanks for the right up.....were the mid pipes really that much of a pain in the ass to install though?

Not realy, just a little banging. PaceSetter actually has better midpipes that are shipping. Mine were just a little different, fitament should be perfect with all the others. I'm just an impatient bastard and wanted to feel the power.
 

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not a pontiac its a HOLDEN !!
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we all get that way sometimes , its part of the addiction , LOL
 

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Hey That was a DAME GOOD write up! thanks for the pics and info>
 

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Flash99 said:
Not realy, just a little banging. PaceSetter actually has better midpipes that are shipping. Mine were just a little different, fitament should be perfect with all the others. I'm just an impatient bastard and wanted to feel the power.
ah good to hear,ill be buying a set for sure :turbonaug :turbonaug
 

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WTF?
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Can you tell me where to look in your pics to see the bolts that have to be "modified"? I can't find them. What are these bolts holding down? Did you have to grind the head completely off? I know lots of questions but I'm considering these because I can't see paying $1100+ for a set of headers. Do you know if any midpipes will work with these? For example, can I buy catted mids from SLP or JBA and just clamp them up? Thanks in advance and great write up.
 

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May I quote you on that?
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You won't see appreciable differences in gains from different brands of headers. Any properly designed header will reduce backpressure and increase exhaust velocity, unless the primaries are too big for the application.
The gains cited here are about right for a cammed engine. A stocker will see less, due to the OEM cam. The stock cam has a relatively wide LSA. The lack of overlap enables GM to eliminate the EGR and still meet EPA requirements. It also makes the LSx reasonably "blower friendly". However this same attribute prevents the "scavenging" one would normally associate with LT headers. This is why header, muffler, exhaust changes have relatively small effect on stock GTO's. You can reduce pumping losses, but that's about it.
 

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what kind of exahaust did you use? i heard the video clip on streetfire :eek2:
 

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*grumblegrumbleIliveinCaliforniagrumblegrumble*
 
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