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Discussion Starter #1
I have a 2005 M6 GTO
I work at a Caddi dellership in New Olreans LA.
I have seen a few post on here that say someting about M6 no haveing TM
well i have a tech-2 and if you look in the ignition table there is a little thing called TORQUE MANAGEMENT RETARD which is between knock retard and ignition time

so i snap-shoted my car and in first i get 6-8deg for TM retard though haft for 1 gear when in shft -22 deg retard for the shift to second,
2-3 shift 26 deg of Tm retard and on the 3-4 shift it takes out 20 degs for TM retard

So all i can say is that in the 05 with a m6 or a a4 the torque amanagement is doing a lot
and if you try to power shift the Torque management will close th TB to 30%
now don't you love this new ECM's!

i dont know if the 04 have this but All the LS2 motors do.
 

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1badsombich
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i believe the 04's do as well. thank you for clearing this up.
 

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Can you please translate "so i snap-shoted my car and in first i get 6-8deg for TM retard though haft for 1 gear when in shft"?

Thanks.

Doc
 

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Translation

Holeshot said:
He was data streaming and Froze the data on his tech 2
Having a Tech 1, I am familiar with the snapshot function, it is other parts of the sentence meaning I'm having a little trouble understanding. I'm not trying to make fun of anyone grammatically challenged, I make plenty of typos myself (fat finger syndrome).

Also, was your traction control on or off when you took the snapshot?

Doc
 

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VIOLET FOREVER
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mrdoc442 said:
Having a Tech 1, I am familiar with the snapshot function, it is other parts of the sentence meaning I'm having a little trouble understanding. I'm not trying to make fun of anyone grammatically challenged, I make plenty of typos myself (fat finger syndrome).

Also, was your traction control on or off when you took the snapshot?

Doc
Well excuse me. Could you teach me proper grammar?
 

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05 Torrid Red in my garrage
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oldandnew said:
I have a 2005 M6 GTO
I work at a Caddi dellership in New Olreans LA.
I have seen a few post on here that say someting about M6 no haveing TM
well i have a tech-2 and if you look in the ignition table there is a little thing called TORQUE MANAGEMENT RETARD which is between knock retard and ignition time

so i snap-shoted my car and in first i get 6-8deg for TM retard though haft for 1 gear when in shft -22 deg retard for the shift to second,
2-3 shift 26 deg of Tm retard and on the 3-4 shift it takes out 20 degs for TM retard

So all i can say is that in the 05 with a m6 or a a4 the torque amanagement is doing a lot
and if you try to power shift the Torque management will close th TB to 30%
now don't you love this new ECM's!

i dont know if the 04 have this but All the LS2 motors do.
This is what I love about internet forums, you say there is TM on the 6-speed, and in the next thread about the same subject, a GM tech who worked on the PCM for our cars, says there is NOT a TM on the 6-speed :eek2: Got to love it.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
what?
i was sying that there is TM on the LS2 GTO's
and the TC was off when i snap-shoted my car.
i snap-shoted it with th ABS fuse out, it made no differance with the fuse out.
 

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MyGTO4 said:
This is what I love about internet forums, you say there is TM on the 6-speed, and in the next thread about the same subject, a GM tech who worked on the PCM for our cars, says there is NOT a TM on the 6-speed :eek2: Got to love it.
FYI, I've been reading and lurking a lot on forums about this subject, specifically the vette forums. I wasn't sure what to believe, either.

In my opinion, the "experts" claiming they are affiliated with GM are talking out of their butts. The ones who are actually making progress with tuning and the LS2 computer are the people doing the work in the shops now, like Cartek and Lingenfelter.

I'll take their word for it instead, along with their real world dyno and track tests.
 

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oldandnew said:
what?
i was sying that there is TM on the LS2 GTO's
and the TC was off when i snap-shoted my car.
i snap-shoted it with th ABS fuse out, it made no differance with the fuse out.
There have been other threads here where people claiming to have worked on the ECM or a variant of it said there was no M6 torque mgmt. I believe this is what he was referring to, not your post.
 

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05 Torrid Red in my garrage
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Yes, I was refering to Oldandnew, and another poster that claimed he helped develope the 05 computers. I think his screen name is monster51 or something. Anyway his thread was very informative, and made much sense, just like others both for and against this subject. I just wish there was a way to know for sure, but there is not. This is why I get burned out, reading these types of forums, because in the end you can never really know what type of information your getting. But its still fun to read the stories.

Mike.
 

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IN addition to this thread,


I drove a stock m6 '05 GTO at the track yesterday, it was a hot sunny day. The car did not feel as strong as my '04 did in stock form.

I wonder if the '05 PCM pulls throttle in addition to timing?
 

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Discussion Starter #16
the torque management closes the TB blade when it pulls the timing

I orderd Cartech's Torque management delete box it should been in next week

So ill let you if it works
 

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Discussion Starter #17
MyGTO4 said:
Yes, I was refering to Oldandnew, and another poster that claimed he helped develope the 05 computers. I think his screen name is monster51 or something. Anyway his thread was very informative, and made much sense, just like others both for and against this subject. I just wish there was a way to know for sure, but there is not. This is why I get burned out, reading these types of forums, because in the end you can never really know what type of information your getting. But its still fun to read the stories.

Mike.

You can see that there is Torque management on a 05 with a Tech2
do you know anyone that works at a GM dellership?
 

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monster5601's post on 05/05/2005 06:29 AM

"The following, for the most part, applies only to the 2005 GTO, the 2004 GTO does not use the E40 controller.

I would like to share my knowledge of engine control and at the same time, try to kill off some of the urban myths and conspiracy theories at the same time. Before I get to that, let me qualify myself. I worked on the E40 program from conception to production, and was involved in the hardware and the software of the E40 as well as the integration of the E40 in to the midsize SUV/SSR and the Corvette. The E40 controller and the low level software (API) was designed and developed by Delphi to GM’s specifications. GM’s powertrain engineers developed the application software on top of the API. The E40 gets it’s personality from the calibration tables. The E40 was designed to replace GM’s aging V8 controllers at a lower cost per unit as well as a faster and more versatile controller.

In GM powertrain control there are three types of ECM (electronic control modules), the first letter indicates its use:

P = Powertrain control, engine and transmission.
E = Engine control.
T = Transmission control.

Our 2005 GTO’s use the E40 controller, and for those of us with automatic transmissions, also have the T42 transmission controller. The same is true for the following GM vehicles, 2005/6 Corvettes, 2005/6 Midsize SUV’s, SSR, 2006 CTS-V, V8 Impalas, Grand Prixs, and the Monty Carlos (did I miss any). The E40 is capable of being cascaded to control engines with up to 16 cylinders. The E40 also can communicate using both GM-LAN (CAN) and GM Class II.

With that said, I’m ready to drop a big one on you, that is, torque management. TM is managed by the T42 controller, there is a request torque and a delivered torque signal the T42 and the E40 exchange. This allows the E40 to reduce or increase torque as requested by the T42. For those of us with manual transmissions, we do not have a T42 controller in our car, nor do we have torque management. Torque management is not the same as traction control, TC is part of the ABS system.

I’m sure there is a facet of this board that will want to argue this point so have at it but the end result is you can’t change the design.

Another issue I wanted to chime in about is controller adaptation. In the E40 there are two processors. One processor is mostly dedicated to managing the electronic throttle control (ETC), the other processor runs the engine and supports communications and I/O. ETC is NOT new and has been in GM’s production since 2003 with the P59 controller (I’m going from memory here).

Simply stated, the E40 monitors sensors and issues control to engine components to make power. Based on the sensor input, the E40 relies on calibration lookup tables to control components like timing and fuel injectors. The E40 does develop offset values that are used in the final value from the lookup tables. These offsets are developed from the driver’s driving habits. So yes, there is adaptation but not anywhere near the extremes I’ve seen cited in messages on this board. The offsets are dynamic and always changing.

In closing I’d like to touch on engine knock and octane. Our Goats have an octane sensor in the fuel system which advises the E40 of the fuel’s octane value. We can run octane from 87 up with reduced power of course. If the E40 is doing its job, you will never here your engine knock, if you do, you should have a code set and you need to get your car to your dealer. So to those that claim they hear their engine knocking, I say bull!

Flame me if you’d like but you won’t change the facts. I was careful what I said so as to stay far away from proprietary information. Please respect this and no PM’s looking for proprietary information, I won’t do it! "

Could it be that the T/M is available/present on both A4 and M6 2005 GTO's but on 2005 M6 GTO's as monster 5601 states ".... we do not have a T42 controller (which manages T/M) in our car (meaning M6 cars), nor do we have torque management"?

I'm tempted to give the most credibility to monster5601, as he appears to be well informed, but who knows?

Mighty confusing. I wonder if any of the factory shop manuals address T/M?

Probably the best way is, as oldandnew states, find someone with a tech II, who knows how to use it, and hook it up to an M6 GTO and see what it says with regard to T/M.

Doc
 

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Reading comprehension-

Holeshot said:
Well excuse me. Could you teach me proper grammar?
might be better suited toward your needs, as it appears you cannot distinguish when/if another members post is being referred to. As a founding member, you set a poor example with your hostile and disrespectful attitude.

Doc
 

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I like boobs.
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oldandnew said:
the torque management closes the TB blade when it pulls the timing

I orderd Cartech's Torque management delete box it should been in next week

So ill let you if it works
This is how I understand it also... Pulls timing and closes the throttle some to limit power.

I can FEEL the TM pull power when I shift hard or downshift quickly and nail it. When it SHOULD get completely stupid sideways, it just barely barks the tires and accelerates. If I downshift and ride the gear for a second and then lay into it, it gets stupid sideways as expected. Hmm....

Let us know if the Cartech module works or not. I believe they were working on one for the GTO's as it was but dunno if the Vette one would work or not.
 
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