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GO STEELERS!
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Well, I'm going to be getting my first mod...

Getting some Diamond Audio M661 Components put in the stock locations, getting some M66.1 Mids put in the passanger area in place of the Components and to top it off I'll be adding a 10" Diamond Audio Sub.

I'm going for stealth on the install so the components and mids will go in stock locations and the sub will be getting a false wall in the trunk.

One thing I realized after I upgraded the Mach system in my mustang is that more speakers does not = better sound.

All you need is a set of nice components and a sub. The midbass I'm adding is sort of a splurge, and I hope it doesn't mess up staging.


And I don't even have the car in my hands yet.

:gr_jest:




Edit: I will also be getting the Kenwood Double Din after christmas, need to save some money for other peoples presents.

:D
 

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Right on. I loved my diamonds in my Blazer. Post pics !!!
 

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Fast GTO said:
Well, I'm going to be getting my first mod...

Getting some Diamond Audio M661 Components put in the stock locations, getting some M66.1 Mids put in the passanger area in place of the Components and to top it off I'll be adding a 10" Diamond Audio Sub.

I'm going for stealth on the install so the components and mids will go in stock locations and the sub will be getting a false wall in the trunk.
I am kinda glad you settled on the Diamonds. I don't think the others would have been bad, but this way you got to hear the speakers and the install will be done by the guys you are buying from making it easy.

Fast GTO said:
One thing I realized after I upgraded the Mach system in my mustang is that more speakers does not = better sound.
More speakers = More volume and SPL (generally speaking), but you get a more difficult setup in return. For those without access to a RTA and EQ, I tend to recommend getting less speakers to keep the music clean.

Fast GTO said:
All you need is a set of nice components and a sub. The midbass I'm adding is sort of a splurge, and I hope it doesn't mess up staging.
So long as you route 80hz down to the sub, 90-100hz through 200-500hz (depending on the natural fall off of the midbass speaker), and the rest up front leaving a 10-20hz gap you should have no problems getting it to sound great. Extra midbass speakers when crossed over correctly add a richness to most systems that isn't present in two way setups. If you plan on overlapping the midbass with the fronts, you could have a challenge on your hands getting it to sound clean.

As a side note if you listen to the system towards the upper end of your volume, you might want to add a cap to your system to keep your lights from dimming. A cap in some systems can even extend the life of a battery and alternator.
 

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GO STEELERS!
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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
Hmm, thats odd, I've heard people say that CAPS are only for looks and add almost nothing.


Also, can someone verify with me that this is a good price.

The shop I am going through is saying that going with what I listed above will run me $2,000 if not a little over.

I told him to just NIX the midbass set if it goes over $2,000 (that is my Limit of Advance).

I just can't see installing Components, Midbass, 2 Amps, and One Sub w/box, costing me anymore than $2,000.

They are saying that the wiring will be $200, Subbox at least $100, and Miscellanious wiring harnesses adding a little extra, plus the install fee.

So basically he is saying the audio gear itself will run $1600, then wiring etc... will put me slightly above $2,000.

Does this sound right?
 

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I have a set of Diamonds in my Formula, and they sound great... Love 'em ... I have the M5's, but I put a set of M3's in a buddy's car and actually thought they sounded smoother than my 5's ...
 

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Fast GTO said:
Hmm, thats odd, I've heard people say that CAPS are only for looks and add almost nothing.
I disagree, and I was part of the USAC World Finals about 10 years ago. Having a cap will help transient bass punch at higher current draws. Basicly, it keeps the amp from getting less current than it wants during hard hitting notes. On a 'normal' system, it really wouldnt help much but when you are talking 500+ watts for subs alone it can make a difference. Even a single 1 farad cap will help. I used two of them at one point and found that only one was really necessary. I was pushing a 1/4ohm load on one of the best Phoenix Gold amps ever made IMO. I calculated the total output to be roughly 800 watts from a 25x2 (rated) amp. That was really unfair when it came to SPL contests since it put me in one of the lower power classes. Lets just say I won often. :secret:
 

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CSiJason said:
I disagree, and I was part of the USAC World Finals about 10 years ago. Having a cap will help transient bass punch at higher current draws. Basicly, it keeps the amp from getting less current than it wants during hard hitting notes. On a 'normal' system, it really wouldnt help much but when you are talking 500+ watts for subs alone it can make a difference. Even a single 1 farad cap will help. I used two of them at one point and found that only one was really necessary. I was pushing a 1/4ohm load on one of the best Phoenix Gold amps ever made IMO. I calculated the total output to be roughly 800 watts from a 25x2 (rated) amp. That was really unfair when it came to SPL contests since it put me in one of the lower power classes. Lets just say I won often. :secret:
Mostly agree; Today's quality regulated amps don't require caps, it's overkill. But they will shield you're car's electrical system when the amp draws more power than it should. Every amp is different and you're install shop should be able to speak to te necessity of a cap w/ a particular amp they sell.

In my blazer install, I had no caps and didn't have any issues driving an xtant 604 and xtant 300 mono sub amp. The 604 is a really nice amp and never appeared to draw extra power. The 300 was not as high quality as the 604 and did suck power out of the car, dimming lights at really high volume during heavy bass. There was never any damage to the Blazer and I never replaced the alternator in 2 1/2 years.

In the GTO, I've got a diamond 600.2 and 1200.1. I did install a cap recently when it went in for some sound deadening work. I don't think I needed it. I listened to the system at many volume levels and saw no impacts to my electrical system. I chose to install the cap (you can't see it) for piece of mind. I suspect the GTO has electrical gremlins already (gauges reading wrong sometimes) and didn't want to potentially exacerbate them. The money was a drop in the bucket compared to the overall install.

If I were you, I'd try it without the cap, assuming you are getting good amp(s). If you have light dimming issues, spend the extra money then and install a 1f cap.

Either way you go, good luck and I hope that helps some!!!
 

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Fast GTO said:
Hmm, thats odd, I've heard people say that CAPS are only for looks and add almost nothing.?
Well that all depends. In an unregulated system caps are very important almost necessary. In a regulated system (most systems are regulated as is yours), caps can do two things. Systems that have power problems (and many people do they just don't know it) is clean up the bass a bit (improve transient response) and prevent a drop of voltage at the battery (what causes the lights to dim when a bass note hits).

I won't get into the details of the hows/whys, but think of a cap as a super fast battery that only holds a tiny bit of power. When you turn on your AC some of the power from the alternator is diverted to the AC system... what is left is stored in the battery. When you run more power than your alternator outputs, juice pulls from your battery. One quasi-problem is batteries do not supply power very quickly where as a cap sends power in an instant. Caps can fix power delivery problems when the alternator has a slow voltage sensor. Simply put, caps can make it so the alternator isn't winding up and down as much and becomes a bit more constant in its voltage output.

When the engine revs and the pulley on the alternator runs faster, the alternator will put out if needed more juice. However, at idle your alternator isn't putting out much juice. When a bass note hits, power is diverted from the battery and in some cases if music is loud and the amps are pulling hard from the rest of the electrical system (dimming lights) there isn't enough power to go around for that brief instant. So basically, caps even out an overworked circuits power flow. When the big note hits, it pulls from the cap and when the note is over the cap recharges. If you have a long powerful note, caps will only help for a tiny instance of that time, but most music allows plenty of time for a cap to recharge once discharged.

To shorten this cap drone up, if you rewire your alternator to the battery and battery to the ground with 0/1/2/4-guage wire you can increase the powerflow magnitudes in some cars. Sometimes the wire they use to glue the electrical system together is small... too small. This can in effect solve power problems as well.


Fast GTO said:
Also, can someone verify with me that this is a good price.

The shop I am going through is saying that going with what I listed above will run me $2,000 if not a little over.

I told him to just NIX the midbass set if it goes over $2,000 (that is my Limit of Advance).

I just can't see installing Components, Midbass, 2 Amps, and One Sub w/box, costing me anymore than $2,000.

They are saying that the wiring will be $200, Subbox at least $100, and Miscellanious wiring harnesses adding a little extra, plus the install fee.

So basically he is saying the audio gear itself will run $1600, then wiring etc... will put me slightly above $2,000.

Does this sound right?
Well 400 bucks for a sub box, front and mid speakers install and wiring as well as amp mounts is reasonable especially if they plan on hiding it all. $1600 bucks for midbass, front speakers, 2 amps, and a sub isn't bad, but you aren't buying top of the line either. What are the model numbers and costs of each item? I can probably tell you specifically what you could get them for wholesale.
 

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josephra said:
In my blazer install, I had no caps and didn't have any issues driving an xtant 604 and xtant 300 mono sub amp. The 604 is a really nice amp and never appeared to draw extra power. The 300 was not as high quality as the 604 and did suck power out of the car, dimming lights at really high volume during heavy bass. There was never any damage to the Blazer and I never replaced the alternator in 2 1/2 years.
Couple things to keep in mind here. First, Blazers ship with a 120amp alternator while the GTO ships with a 90amp. Second, GTO pulls about 1.5 times the power. Third, the XTant amps are very effecient amps. They have relatively low power consumption.

When your lights dim, you could in fact be damaging the electrical system (not very likely, but depends on the system). Lead acid batteries only have a certain amount of recharge in them. Most systems don't use power higher than the alternator output. Multi-amp systems often do and shorten the life of the battery. Also, the more the alternator goes up and down the shorter its life becomes. In most instances, this is neglible as in Josephra's case. As for my Blazer, I went through the stock battery, two yellow top optimas, and three alternators in 5 years. The next four years went by without incident once I put in a 4 farad of cap bank and rewired the electrical. My system was kicking out on average around 1000 watts with peaks near 2000 so it was not a typical install either.

In Bi-Amp systems over 500 watts, I recommend a farad cap and rewire the alternator/battery/ground. You will insulate your electrical system and never have to worry about power flow in the system.
 

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Fast GTO said:
I just can't see installing Components, Midbass, 2 Amps, and One Sub w/box, costing me anymore than $2,000.
I got the final total on my system which is being installed by a local guy that I trust since I don't have the time for such things anymore. Hopefully this will help you guage how much an install costs.

I used mmxpress.com for the new parts. Not the cheapest but pretty close, they have been doing this a long time, and they don't inflate shipping.

Image Dynamics CXS62 - 319.95
Image Dynamics CX62 2 ohm 6.5 inch midbass - 188.95
Directed 1200/5 5 channel (one amp to rule them all) - 699.99
David Navone (davidnavone.com) NE-8V (speaker to rca converter) - 29.95

(Parts used from another install... my suggested replacements)
2 Image Dynamics IDQ10D4 V.2 - 146.95 x 2 = 293.90
Audio Control 4xs (pick up on ebay) - 100.00
Rockford Punch Cap CPC10 - 96.95

So a total of 1729.69.

Shipping for everything will be less than 50 bucks (mine was 20 bucks but didn't include the subs).

Installation of everything above (except I have a symmetry rather than a 4xs and wiring a Mito rear view mirror) was 675 including the wiring (0 guage) and such which also includes running a remote turn on and RCAs to the head unit just in case I need to switch the head unit down the road.

So total install was about 2750 including the Mito rear view mirror and this system punches out some monster power (4x125 + 600x1). BTW, the system is a compromised setup for volume giving up a little fidelity. Knock the mirror and mirror install off and you should be looking at around 2400 bucks for this install. Cut the extra sub and sub enclosure you are probably around 2150.

Hope that helps.
 
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