GTO1369 said:
WTF?
Big Buck, Big hassle tuners? Big bucks, the money that you spent is not big bucks, there are plenty of tuners that get far more money than what you paid. Which is not to say, you do not deserve the best tune possible for what you did pay. A good friend of mine that races a Fuel Injected Stock Eliminator car paid well over $1800 for two good tunes on his stocker. BTW, what big hassles were involved? And why is it whenever someone doesn't get the horsepower they believe they should have gotten it's always the tuners fault? Why doesn't anyone take a look back at their combination? I have seen it so often happen in drag racing circles, "Someone else built my motor and it doesn't run like it should."
Has the cam been degreed in? Do you know where it is? Lots of times, parts get made incorrectly, the cam could be ground a couple of degrees retarded but if it doesn't get degreed in, you wouldn't know. The first time I degreed a roller cam into one of my race cars, I installed the cam key incorrectly. I took it to the track and the car could barely run 10.90's, I knew what I had done. After re-installing the camshaft 2 degrees advanced instead of 2 degrees retarded, I returned to the track in the same conditions and went 10-teens. Yes, it can make that big a difference. What is the actual cylinder pressure? In otherwords, how much compression stroke do you have with the intake valve closed, not misleading static compression ratios? How much overlap is there on the cam shaft? Is the cam not well matched to the cylinder heads? And speaking of cylinder heads....just because their guaranteed to flow a certain number doesn't mean that the shape of the port is optimal for the velocity you need to fill that cylinder. What was done to the short side radius? Does anyone even know what the short side radius is and it's effect on port velocity and cylinder fill?
It's got to be the tuner, it couldn't be a problem with the combination, could it? Do you really think the tuner was negligent to the point of leaving upwards of 50HP on the table?
In any event, I do applaud your effort to become more self-sufficient in modifying your vehicle. BTW from conversations with a tuner that, albeit you do not trust, HP tuners seems to be the most user friendly and comprehensive software. I wish you luck in your quest, but I feel you have unanswered questions that you need to address first.
Well, ya shot a lot out there Tom....
I am having a bit of part throttle trouble, not WOT concern. In the other thread here
http://ls1gto.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103227 last week I asked what effect tuning in a new MAF setup AFTER the wideband/dyno WOT pulls would be. You saw the thread, and the answers recieved. Possible effects would be seen in the <3000rpm area, where I am getting some stalling and roughness.
That answer raised more questions than it answered, but I asked you and the tuner both via PM what you thought of that thread. Heard nothing from either until tonight. Funny, my family had dinner with your family Saturday night, and I get a blast like this tonite here, not offline.
My ? for the tuner was, and remains, is this thread correct about the MAF and the part throttle stuff. Never once have I said on here that the tuner cost me top end. Top end runs great. I know where my missing hp was, and am catching it up, one part at a time, in a well thought out manner.
My lower than expected top end DYNO #s are mostly peripheral intake and exhaust improvements needing attention, and receiving that attention as $$ allow. Remember when we discussed TB porting techniques on the phone last week? My new 3" cutouts? A new MAf tube for the Aussie mod airfilter setup?
Hell, I have not named any tuners, nor blamed anybody except me for the peripheral mod needs holding the WOT dyno #s down.
The head builder has been very supportive, as I had been confident in his prior work on cars here, and been assured it was a tight combo with him having the cam card before the work was begun. He has been on the phone, giving suggestions and offering to strip the heads, re-mill, and do as much as possible to make his part right. The more we dig into other cars with similar setups, the heads look less like the cork in the bottle.
Straightening the peripherals out comes first. Bob at PM( cust service pro) has publicly stated on the board that he is ready to hit those heads with whatever it takes if the heads are
part of the problem.
Various stuff is being done to idealize the setup on my car. If that includes changing to different heads, or pulling the cam, it will happen in the order it should, after all possible peripherals are attended to first, retuned, then the next step taken. I think you would agree that tearing the engine apart for 2 days would be out of order until the above stuff is done.
When I can afford a better oil pump, an adjustable timing gear set and have the basics sorted, I will know without a doubt where every little movement is happening. No point in opening her up yet if an adjustment ain't possible anyway...
On the Big Buck, big hassles....I was triple booked and appointment forgotten on my first tune, then was pushed between 2 others guys. On the second, it was impossible to get an am tune, which is a biggie for me as a sole custody dad. I was feeling very last second, with a shop guy wanting to go home and a tuner who was admittedly exhausted and tuning after 8pm. Maybe thats why the MAF got tuned late. Maybe it has nothing to do with anything, except that my kids got TV dinners just so I could catch a busy man between trips between cities who had been up until 4 am admittedly the night before.
This thread was not started to deal with any of the stuff you slung out. It was not, nor is it an attack on any tuner. Ragging the head builder/friend who helped me do the swap, not for pay, who happens to be a sponsor and in direct competetion with your services is insulting.
This thread was started to eliminate the need for my broke azz to have to bend my totally insane schedules around tuners. That is a plus for ME, not a rag on popular tuners. I want to know what my car is doing with every little mod, change, tweak and fix. I cannot do that without learning to tune, and with the support of
friends and those who have gone before me, and are willing to pass on the knowledge, I will not have to deal with the limitations of MY scheduling needs colliding with the biz needs of a tuner, or have to PAY to see if the TB porting lowered the MAP a bit or not.
You'll also see we have a user base of over 4500 members ready to answer your questions. 3 of our top 4 posters are the Owners Keith, Chris & Ken meaning when you do get an answer its usually direct from the horses mouth.
