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MAX-M6/LS1
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Discussion Starter #1
I'm getting ready to take the plunge into installing a camshaft and would like some information from everyone who has already done it. Can you tell me what size Cam you installed and if you like it? where does the power turn on, 2,000, 3,000 RPM's or where? Does it lope any? Would you get a bigger one if you had it to do over again? How much did it affect you MPG? Can you really feel the power? Does it still idle good? Thanks for any information you can give me.
 

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Sewell Pontiac
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300 Posts
04 LS1-MAN said:
I'm getting ready to take the plunge into installing a camshaft and would like some information from everyone who has already done it. Can you tell me what size Cam you installed and if you like it? where does the power turn on, 2,000, 3,000 RPM's or where? Does it lope any? Would you get a bigger one if you had it to do over again? How much did it affect you MPG? Can you really feel the power? Does it still idle good? Thanks for any information you can give me.
Hey man I haven't had a cam in the GTO but I am familiar with the cams in LS1s being I have had a couple. Anyway I would go for a cam with a 224 or bigger you will get the biggest gains from these cams. The cams will idle fine with the right person doing the tuning on the car. Yes they are going to lope, heck even the stock cam lopes a little it is just on a higher lope seperation so you can't feel it as much. I would go with a cam with a 114 or even a 115 lope seperation so you can feel the cam and hear it. MPG might be effected a little but not much. Different cams have different characteristics as to when the power comes on. You just have to ask the people who make the cams. I hope this helps your car is going to feel like a completely different beast after you are done.

Jason
 

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13 year owner
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16,379 Posts
It's more than duration though. I have a 220* single pattern in the Camaro and at idle you'd think it was stock.

Things you have to consider also besides the obvious lift and duration are ramp speeds, Base circle, and lobe separtion. Do you want a single pattern (both intake and exhaust are identical) or a dual pattern (where I & E are slightly different). You have to determine what kind of power you want to make too. Do you want maximum, high rpm power? Or will you give up a few top end ponies to have a flat, linear, and smooth power curve for both torque and HP that usually starts at about 3k.

Do you plan on running a blower or other power adder? Are you planning on heads too?

There are some mountain cams out there that'll put you at nearly 400rwhp without any heads, but have a mountain of lift. That'll make your car sound like a barely idling pro-stocker though.

And of course, any improvement to the cam, should be accompanied by an improvement in pushrods, and at least the valve springs on the heads and their associated retainers. If you change your base circle on the cam, a larger pushrod will be needed!

So this is a hard question to answer.
 

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Admin
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Depending if you have an auto or a manual the driveability will be affected. Everyone has different ideas of driveability. The best tuner in the world will not always be able to keep the idle from hanging or searching. It can definatly be minimized, I just dont imagine GTO owners to be as carefree as F-body owners. Everyone has their limits ;) I'd think slightly under a 224 cam would be ideal.
 

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Resident 10-second Priest
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This is my first venture into the "lope-zone" :) , since I came from the WRX-world. Mine is rather aggressive: IIRC it's a 236/238, 114 lsa, 590 lift (with 6.0 liter heads). Very driveable, but not something you want to open up when the sheriff is within 10-blocks. :sneaky: :)

Mine has power all across the band, though with my higher-stall torque converter, it slips a bit until 2800rpm. My rev-limit is now at 6800rpm.

And MPG? :gr_jest: 20mpg on the highway cruising. 15mpg around town. 5mpg on the strip. :)

Padre
 

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13 year owner
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16,379 Posts
Also when you start getting into soo much duration, you also get lower amounts of lobe separation. This isn't a big deal if you don't require emissions testing, but generally, anything less than a 112* L.S. is pushing it. Tuning can make a world of difference but even still.
 

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MAX-M6/LS1
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223 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
GTOJ said:
Hey man I haven't had a cam in the GTO but I am familiar with the cams in LS1s being I have had a couple. Anyway I would go for a cam with a 224 or bigger you will get the biggest gains from these cams. The cams will idle fine with the right person doing the tuning on the car. Yes they are going to lope, heck even the stock cam lopes a little it is just on a higher lope seperation so you can't feel it as much. I would go with a cam with a 114 or even a 115 lope seperation so you can feel the cam and hear it. MPG might be effected a little but not much. Different cams have different characteristics as to when the power comes on. You just have to ask the people who make the cams. I hope this helps your car is going to feel like a completely different beast after you are done.

Jason
Jason, Thanks alot I appreciate the info, I'm going to get Keith at RPM to do the install
 

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Registered
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CMNTMXR57 said:
It's more than duration though. I have a 220* single pattern in the Camaro and at idle you'd think it was stock.

Things you have to consider also besides the obvious lift and duration are ramp speeds, Base circle, and lobe separtion. Do you want a single pattern (both intake and exhaust are identical) or a dual pattern (where I & E are slightly different). You have to determine what kind of power you want to make too. Do you want maximum, high rpm power? Or will you give up a few top end ponies to have a flat, linear, and smooth power curve for both torque and HP that usually starts at about 3k.

Do you plan on running a blower or other power adder? Are you planning on heads too?

There are some mountain cams out there that'll put you at nearly 400rwhp without any heads, but have a mountain of lift. That'll make your car sound like a barely idling pro-stocker though.

And of course, any improvement to the cam, should be accompanied by an improvement in pushrods, and at least the valve springs on the heads and their associated retainers. If you change your base circle on the cam, a larger pushrod will be needed!

So this is a hard question to answer.

This has to be the best advice yet.... :D

A camshaft is considered the brain of an engine and as such, it's profile and characteristics should not be taken lightly. Just because an F-body ran well with "cam XXX" doesn't mean a stock or modified GTO will respond the same.

On the camshaft Tech Form I have customers fill out, there are many parameters that have to be considered before I can design their profile....

Be careful on cam specs because you may have more than a few bucks tied up in gaskets before your happy...

Ed
 

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13 year owner
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16,379 Posts
Thank You. :D
 

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MAX-M6/LS1
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223 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
The stock cam turns on at 3,000 rpm, Can I get one that will turn on at 2,000rpm? I drive almost 100 miles a day five days a week so it cant change reliability. It has to idle good enough that my wife could borrow the car and its still be driveable for her. So is there a cam that puts out the power early and can still do the other things too?
 

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13 year owner
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16,379 Posts
The cam profile is specifically meant to match the heads capability to breathe which is what is so great about the LS1/6 motor. It's ability to breathe as the rpm's increase. I understand what you want, and why you want it, but if you want it to turn on that much sooner, you're most likely gonna strangle it at those higher levels. So in essence, you're being counterproductive.

Duration will help torque, but 222 - 224 is a pretty long durationa and pushes the Lobe Separation down into "dirty" territory. However, anything can be done, sooo. I remember the day when my 220* cam was thought to be a huge amount of duration.
 

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Feynman fan
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EDC, when I am ready to pop a cam in my Goat (along with some AFR heads, maybe?), and I want you to help me with selection/design, what's the process?

Mostly just out of curiosity at this point because it will be many months before I'm heading down that path (maybe - unless I get bitten) but it will happen and reading some of your stuff on another "technical" engine-focused forum (;)) convinced be long ago that you'd be the man I'd want to see...
 

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MAX-M6/LS1
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223 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
CMNTMXR57 said:
The cam profile is specifically meant to match the heads capability to breathe which is what is so great about the LS1/6 motor. It's ability to breathe as the rpm's increase. I understand what you want, and why you want it, but if you want it to turn on that much sooner, you're most likely gonna strangle it at those higher levels. So in essence, you're being counterproductive.
Duration will help torque, but 222 - 224 is a pretty long durationa and pushes the Lobe Separation down into "dirty" territory. However, anything can be done, sooo. I remember the day when my 220* cam was thought to be a huge amount of duration.
Well in my case which Cam would you use or recommend?
 

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gto_in_nc said:
EDC, when I am ready to pop a cam in my Goat (along with some AFR heads, maybe?), and I want you to help me with selection/design, what's the process?

Mostly just out of curiosity at this point because it will be many months before I'm heading down that path (maybe - unless I get bitten) but it will happen and reading some of your stuff on another "technical" engine-focused forum (;)) convinced be long ago that you'd be the man I'd want to see...

Anytime you're ready, just email through the FlowTech Induction web site...

I have quite a few new camshaft profiles for the AFR 205 and 225 heads as well as some softer ramp cam lobe designs for the Goats...

Just hoping I can get that 04 yellow jacket purchased soon before another major appliance in the house explodes... First the clothes washer, then the dryer, now the refrigerator... what next???

As the wife laughs in the background. :gr_devil:

Ed
 

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13 year owner
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What do you want out of it? That's the key. What other things do you have planned?
 

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Member #804
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After going through tons of discussion on LS1tech, anything around 224 115 LSA is gonna find you with a streetable healthy increase. You can still get a stealthy cam in these specs.

The cam I like is a MTI Stealth II;)
 

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13 year owner
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16,379 Posts
That's due to the 115* LSA. As I mentioned before, generally a cam with lots of duration, has a low L.S. Usually around 112* sometimes less.

This cam you like most likely is a dual pattern and utilizes a smaller base circle that results in quick ramp speeds to keep that 115* L.S. That's my guess anyway.
 

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Feynman fan
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2,336 Posts
EDC said:

Anytime you're ready, just email through the FlowTech Induction web site...

I have quite a few new camshaft profiles for the AFR 205 and 225 heads as well as some softer ramp cam lobe designs for the Goats...

Just hoping I can get that 04 yellow jacket purchased soon before another major appliance in the house explodes... First the clothes washer, then the dryer, now the refrigerator... what next???

As the wife laughs in the background. :gr_devil:

Ed
Repair guy's coming today between 9 & 11 to look at my washer... :(

Thanks, Ed! You will definitely be the person I contact when the time is right.
 
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