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Administrator
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Discussion Starter #1
After this week's tragedy at the Florida High School where 17 people were killed, I wanted to start the debate about what "could" be a potential solution here.

For the record:
1) I am a 2nd amendment advocate
2) I think people have the right to carry / own firearms legally


What are realistic options? I don't think "rounding up" guns is the answer.

I think a buy back program could help.

I think deeper background checks for buying rifles, shotguns, and pistols could help.

I think there are too many loopholes like "any other weapon" designations.

I don't want to go down the slippery slope of registering everything; it gets into personal privacy and all sorts of other items. Example: I don't like what CT did after Sandy Hook -- knee jerk reaction for sure.
 

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DW can't take a J... or a D
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I think universal concealed carry and the elimination of 'gun free' zones could help, too.

Universal background checks for all weapon types and all sales is a good thing. I know that makes me a communist, but y'all can fuck off with that. Needs to be an easier way to get mental defectives on the list outside of adjudication.
 

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Born in a class 5 hurricane
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Sticking my toes in the shallow end as I know I am the minority here.

I think people should have the right to have guns for hunting and self-defense. I'm not sure that actually flows from the Second Amendment though. I realize that point of view means there is no Constitutional guarantee allowing people to own guns.

I view the Second Amendment itself as vague and a relic from a frontier society. As for it being an individual right, that seems largely a modern interpretation.

I'm going to go crawl back in my hole now.
 

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DW can't take a J... or a D
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I dunno, I would counter that the modern interpretation is that it was not an individual right. 200+ years of it being pretty well understood that you can have and carry a gun.
 

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please stand by...
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I don't want to go down the slippery slope of registering everything; it gets into personal privacy and all sorts of other items. Example: I don't like what CT did after Sandy Hook -- knee jerk reaction for sure.
But it is a slippery slope, man-made objects are just that , objects.

Where there is a will, there is a way.

Current society does not want to deal people who are wired wrong, unhinged to the breaking point, mentally disabled, or just plain evil.


Unless we start dealing with those issues nothing will change. Ever.
 

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Fake bacon lover
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Where there is a will, there is a way.
That statement is repeated all the time. But the counter point being:

- Currently

The Way is pretty darn easy

- Thus

You don't have to have that strong of A Will
 

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The Entenmann's Shim-Sham
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Current society does not want to deal people who are wired wrong, unhinged to the breaking point, mentally disabled, or just plain evil.


Unless we start dealing with those issues nothing will change. Ever.
Cool. So suggest a fix instead of pointing out a problem and passing the blame.
 

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The Entenmann's Shim-Sham
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A huge step would be having systems that actually spoke with each other so someone can't pass a background check, kill a bunch of people, and then it be revealed that they were on an agency's radar.
 

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Administrator
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Discussion Starter #10
A huge step would be having systems that actually spoke with each other so someone can't pass a background check, kill a bunch of people, and then it be revealed that they were on an agency's radar.
This is a good one for sure.


I find in "corporate America" half of my job is communicating corrections between groups because everyone gets their info via the telephone game and hallway conversations.
 

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Tu stultus es
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A huge step would be having systems that actually spoke with each other so someone can't pass a background check, kill a bunch of people, and then it be revealed that they were on an agency's radar.
What do you do post retail sales? If I want to sell my firearms I don't have to give the potential buyer a background check. Also, what about those around me that can get to my firearms? The only thing that will work is some Judge Dredd type safeguards.
 

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The Entenmann's Shim-Sham
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What do you do post retail sales? If I want to sell my firearms I don't have to give the potential buyer a background check. Also, what about those around me that can get to my firearms? The only thing that will work is some Judge Dredd type safeguards.
What about them? Is what I stated not a glaring hole in the existing system? Would bridging that gap not be a huge step forward?

It seems to me that this tragedy could have been 100% avoided had people just done their fucking jobs, or if the system actually worked as intended.
 

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look at the how many times the shooter was mentally defective and was still legally able to buy a gun, probably around the 90% mark if not higher. why is there a provision in the "yellow sheet" or 4473 sheet for non firearms guys to disqualify you from owning a gun if you as deemed mentally unfit if the various government agencies dont fucking report it to the NICS system? one of the stupidest failures of the background check system there it. fix that first.

the FBI in this case fucked up 3 times by not following up on this kid, then you have the case where the military didnt give the NICS system the info on one of their guys being screwed up and he does a mass shooting.......both the military and the FBI should be taken to task for this in my opinion but thats another thread.
 

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The Entenmann's Shim-Sham
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You like more gun control advocates, which shift blame from people to objects......
"Oh, it's a mental health issue."

Cool. Offer a fix.

"Stop blaming the objects!"

K.
 

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Registered Offender
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my simple train of thought is that if you want to make the NICS system work correctly you give them the info they need to do the job they are tasked with........if you give them all the info that is needed to verify the yes/no answers on the yellow sheet then a lot of this shit doesnt happen, weather its mental instability or the other big thing of if the person has been convicted of domestic violence and or has(d) a restraining order on them from such case. i bet those two things would account for a huge (yuuuge) percentage of the current gun violence.

and im not mad at the gun or the magazines or how many bullets they send downrange im more worried about the lunatic that uses the "tool" for mass murder. at the end of the day a gun is a tool and an inanimate object, the user determines if the tool is used for a good or bad reason simple as that
 

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DW can't take a J... or a D
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You like more gun control advocates, which shift blame from people to objects......
Holy shit dude. This is clearly not a thread for binary thinkers, if you don't want to play the little exercise of "how could we do something about these types of incidents" then seriously GTFO. Like, all the way out.

Obviously this little retard pulled the trigger, what we're discussing is how we can ensure that those retards don't get a trigger to pull. Sure, maybe he would have used a dump truck, or maybe he gets frustrated at his lack of guns and drinks bleach instead. Nobody will know, and people will go on being awful organisms for an eternity - WE GET IT.
 

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1. Background checks on all sales
2. Elimination of gun free zones
3. Concealed carry reciprocity
4. Using a firearm in the commission of a crime carries a mandatory 10x sentence multiplier
5. With a warrant, law enforcement may initiate a non-renewable 30 day extension to the 72 hour weapon sale hold w/r/t NICS checks
 

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Omertà
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5,296 Posts
1. Background checks on all sales
2. Elimination of gun free zones
3. Concealed carry reciprocity
4. Using a firearm in the commission of a crime carries a mandatory 10x sentence multiplier
5. With a warrant, law enforcement may initiate a non-renewable 30 day extension to the 72 hour weapon sale hold w/r/t NICS checks
Agreed, may I add this...

6. A much tighter noose on question 11f of Form 4473.
 

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Pirate Spud
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1,241 Posts
Sticking my toes in the shallow end as I know I am the minority here.

I think people should have the right to have guns for hunting and self-defense. I'm not sure that actually flows from the Second Amendment though. I realize that point of view means there is no Constitutional guarantee allowing people to own guns.

I view the Second Amendment itself as vague and a relic from a frontier society. As for it being an individual right, that seems largely a modern interpretation.

I'm going to go crawl back in my hole now.
It's always been an individual right. Almost the entire bill of rights are individual rights.

The militia was the only form of military at the time. In order for the state to be secure, that military needed to be kept in check by an armed citizenry.

The 2nd amendment is about protecting the country from military coups/government tyranny. Always has been, always will be.

People like to say the same shit about the 3rd amendment being antiquated but without it, imagine the government compelling you to house national guardsmen during their one weekend a month, two weeks a year.
 
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