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got rice?
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480 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
This should scratch the surface of what heel and toe is and why it works.
I'm going to try and explain this as clearly as possible so here goes...

Before attempting heel and toe downshifting, you should learn how to match rev. That's downshifting with matching the rpm for the next gear. Also the GTO pedals are a bit far appart to make this task easy so be cautious when attempting.
Example: You're in 5th taching 2000rpm and you want to downshift to 4th and keep the same mph. In order to do that you have to blipp the throttle as you downshift into 4th to match the rpm to lets say 3000rpm. If the car doesn't jerk then you've been successful. The perfect downshift is the one a passenger doesn't feel.

The main purpose of heel and toe is to not disturb your car's suspension when entering a corner. It has 4 stages:

1- get off the gas so that your car's suspension sit 50/50 (not including weight distribution)

2-start applying the brakes. This is to transfer your car's weight to the front tires. When you do this, you increase the patch area of your front tires. If you don't understand this then take a basket ball and press down on it and you'll see the flat area in contact with the ground will increase. This is called trail braking. Trail braking also increases your steering input. If you apply too much brake your car's rear will try and come around. If you don't apply enough braking, you won't reach your full potential of trail braking.

3-The hard part. As you trail brake from step 2, start to down shift and do the following at the same time. Pigeon toe your right foot so that your heel hangs over the gas and hit the throttle to bring your rpms up. When your rpm speed matches your mph speed let out the clutch and continue to trail brake into the apex (inside) of your turn.

Example: You're doing 70mph in 3rd gear and you're about to enter a turn that requires you to be in 2nd gear at 40mph. Whatever your car tachs at 40mph in 2nd gear is where you're going to have to bring up your rpms to when braking into the turn (heel and toe). As you're braking you're downshifting and blipping the throttle all at the same time. (using all 3 pedals like in step 3).

-4 When you're in your apex of your turn look for the exit (outside of turn) and accelerate out of the turn.

This is what I can think of without getting into too much detail
Feel free to ask any questions.
 

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GTOWILL
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236 Posts
Is it just me, I have big feet and long legs, or is the GTO pedal configuration set-up in such a way that it is difficult to toe-heel shift? I have never really done this, but when I experiment with the pedals, it seems that it is extremely difficult to do considering the pedal locations.
 

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got rice?
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480 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
It's not just you. The pedals are too far apart. I also have long legs with a size 13. I really hope that some aftermarket companies come out with some pedals. Until then, maybe the automatic brake pedal can be a solution.
 

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Member +145mph club
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298 Posts
I have size 8 1/2 shoes and still a problem, pedal placement could be improved
 

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Registered Cruiser
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77 Posts
I am looking into getting the gas pedal moved over a little closer to the brake to assist in heel-toe. My old Commodore was set up really well for it and, although it has NO power, my brother's father-in-law's Alfa Romeo Spider is PERFECT for it.

Mick
 

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got rice?
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480 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
I spoke to the dealership about installing an automatic brake pedal since they're a little wider. The pedal is just under $100 and about 3 hours of labor. I think I'm gonna wait for the aftermarket companies to address this issue.

P.S. Simon if you're reading this post, your Cobra is slow :gr_jest:
 

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Registered
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166 Posts
I also have had trouble getting heel toe, and this morning accidentally got it to work with an incorrect position, with the foot twisted the other way, and the ball of the foot on the brake my toes hit the gas. Haven't had a chance to try it on purpose yet though.
 

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Member +145mph club
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298 Posts
I found that reverse or toe heal works with the pedal setup but is a bad idea. The finesse needed for braking can't be gotten from the heel it requires the toe on the brake pedal to work.
 

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Feynman fan
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2,336 Posts
With my size elevens, I can toe-heel without much difficulty (well, from a dimensional standpoint) when I am wearing "fat" shoes (like sneakers, for instance) but not when I am wearing "skinny" shoes (like boat shoes...) I guess my foot size is right at the threshold.
 

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got rice?
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480 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
ttt
 

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Gets my Goat
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349 Posts
Trail braking as defined in this write up is wrong. Trail braking is carrying your braking into the turn. You can heel-toe a downshift and be finished with braking before ever beginning your turn in.

The rest of it seems spot on, though.

My SS is pretty bad for heel-toeing too. I sometime use my heel on the brake with the aforementioned loss of fine control on the brake pedal. Usually when I'm really interested in heel-toeing I'm on the track at full ABS anyway, however, so it doesn't take too fine of a control of the pedal to get it to stay in ABS :)

Now add double-clutching in there and you've really got some fancy footwork going!
 

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Gets my Goat
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349 Posts
That sounds like my philosophy as well. I try to get almost all of my braking done prior to turn in. I'm not an advanced enough driver to handle the wild oversteer that trail braking into a turn can induce in my car.

I've snapped oversteered more than once in my experience at the track

One of my not-so-great trail braking experiences
 

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Gets my Goat
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349 Posts
LOL, no, that was a music bed I put over it..... Ratt "Round and Round", for obvious reasons :(

You'll probably have a blast at Road America. I'd love to run there sometime.
 

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Doc, Just Doc
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8,767 Posts
The pedals are to far apart and the gas pedal sits to low compared to the brake for a nice a easy heel/toe! I'm sure Holden make a kit. My Alfa's pedals are perfect for heel/toe and you really need to match revs because the syncros are a little weak in my 25 year old transaxle. As long as you brake in a straight line you should not disturb the car too much unless you are on a damp or wet track with an unmatched downshift.
 

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Wearing a beanie... :)
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329 Posts
Just a quick question...

I know someone mentioned in regards to C&D review that they were unhappy with pedal placement... Does this mean that drivers wont be able to do heel-toe on the new 2005 GTO?
 
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