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fmr9c1dvr
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Discussion Starter #1
While looking around in Lowe's Home Improvement the other day I thought this might work to get some more air into the intake...
I don't have any Dyno numbers. Haven't punched 4 inch hole to get direct ram air affect yet, not sure if I want to either. At this point I can only assume that it pushes more air into the intake than would get there without it.
Perhaps some aftermarket people could take the idea and make an inexpensive, better looking scoop for us without an arm and leg to spend on mods...
 

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It would be interesting to see some numbers.......does it dry clothes at the same time?
:drink::drink:
 

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Gone but not forgotten
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its an excellent idea. i just wish there was a way so that it didn't loook quite so "home made".
 

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fmr9c1dvr
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Discussion Starter #4
I am sure someone with more R&D money than I have in my budget could come up with one that looks better and it would only cost us $400 or so... I paid $10 for it to see if it would fit. I think without too much trouble it could be re-shaped and color matched so it blends much better. With the reducer on the 90 degree piece it almost reaches the bottom of the plate where stock air intake rested.
 

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Moving Forward
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fmr9c1dvr said:
I am sure someone with more R&D money than I have in my budget could come up with one that looks better and it would only cost us $400 or so... I paid $10 for it to see if it would fit. I think without too much trouble it could be re-shaped and color matched so it blends much better. With the reducer on the 90 degree piece it almost reaches the bottom of the plate where stock air intake rested.
Actually in the days when i owned a Ford Probe i looked into the homemade air scoop idea. It turned out that one of the Ford Probe Forum owners was an actual engineer for Ford. He was going over the benefits of various products and ideas with other engineers and said that these scoops aren't very good at all. There is cool air and there is dense air. You want a mixture of both. He said that under the bumper, because of the way most cars are designed, the air is cooler but lacks density which in turn affects the cars air/fuel mixture and creates less quality burns. Above the bumper the air is a little warmer due to friction, but the desity is high. He determined the best place to pic up air is right infront of the bumper where the density and temperature are the best. I don't know if this is true to the GTO, because the design of the car is what affects when the air flow is created thus each car is different.

The other problem is that if it starts to rain or you hit a deep puddle of water you risk sucking up some of it. I have seen kits that create a waterproofing around the air filter, yet allow air to flow. I'd rather stick with stock of proven technology. Cheap isn't always better. It may get similar results, but our vendors test their designs and can afford to destroy a car in most cases.
 

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Enjoy the trolls
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I did something similar with my air intake. After performing my Monaro 2 hole CAI, I trimmed a portion of the plastic in the front scoop itself that is behind the headlight. I noticed a 3 inch hole in the wheel fender directly below it. So I fastened a smaller scoop that feeds air directly from the wheel well but not visible even if you looked under the car. I also used adhesive backed foam tape to completely insulate the air box from all the other holes and places where you can suck hot air from the engine bay/ Lastly, I insulated the bottom of the airbox using fiberglass sheets.

All this is fine and dandy but there is still the stock air filter there that acts like a gatekeeper and determines how much air passes through. I am sure under WOT, the LS1 is sucking more air through my Monaro CAI. How much the air filter allows to pass is anybody's guess.

I don't have to worry about rain where I live, and even if it did, it is so high up that it won't reach there anyway. I think Old Goat fashioned a similar air scoop using a rectangular hole in the metal fender well.
 

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Hmmmmm my engineering is kicking in.......The only way for warmer air to be denser or cooler air to be less dense is if the pressure changes. Is he saying that the air under the car is way less pressure then the air higher up? Why would that be? Are the aerodynamics of the car that great? I have my skeptical hat on.
:drink::drink:
 

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Oh my f*ck!
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Tails said:
Hmmmmm my engineering is kicking in.......The only way for warmer air to be denser or cooler air to be less dense is if the pressure changes. Is he saying that the air under the car is way less pressure then the air higher up? Why would that be? Are the aerodynamics of the car that great? I have my skeptical hat on.
:drink::drink:
Simply given the shape of the vehicle, the air going over the top will be at a lower pressure than the air traveling underneath the car. That's the Bernoulli effect. It's how airplanes work. It's even true of those bricks on wheels called Scion xBs. As long as the air has to go a longer distance on top than on the bottom, it's going to be lower pressure on top.
 

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phobos512 said:
Simply given the shape of the vehicle, the air going over the top will be at a lower pressure than the air traveling underneath the car. That's the Bernoulli effect. It's how airplanes work. It's even true of those bricks on wheels called Scion xBs. As long as the air has to go a longer distance on top than on the bottom, it's going to be lower pressure on top.
That is exactly right and exactly opposite of what the Ford guy said. Lower air being at higher pressure and lower temperature would be denser then the hotter air and less pressure. Hence my skeptical hat.
:drink::drink:
 

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Deuce and a Half
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Don't you mean the pressure on the top is greater and the pressure on the bottom is lower? Otherwise the car would be a wing, thats not good last time i checked.
 

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LiqTenExp said:
Don't you mean the pressure on the top is greater and the pressure on the bottom is lower? Otherwise the car would be a wing, thats not good last time i checked.
Nope the air has to travel over the top faster then it has to travel under. The faster the air the lower the pressure. You are correct in that it would make the car have lift which can be good or bad depending on other things like drag, weight on the tires, balance.....
:drink::drink:
 

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LiqTenExp said:
Don't you mean the pressure on the top is greater and the pressure on the bottom is lower? Otherwise the car would be a wing, thats not good last time i checked.
If this were the case, why is it that you suppose every racecar has to have aero work such that they don't flip over? Have you ever seen what happens to an F1 or Indy car if the front spoiler (that rides 1" off the ground) gets damaged? They flip over like nothing.
 

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Tails said:
Nope the air has to travel over the top faster then it has to travel under. The faster the air the lower the pressure. You are correct in that it would make the car have lift which can be good or bad depending on other things like drag, weight on the tires, balance.....
:drink::drink:
yes you are exactly correct... :)

i could bust out my text books, but i dont really feel like being that big of a need.
 

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phobos512 said:
If this were the case, why is it that you suppose every racecar has to have aero work such that they don't flip over? Have you ever seen what happens to an F1 or Indy car if the front spoiler (that rides 1" off the ground) gets damaged? They flip over like nothing.
The term spoiler came from the fact that they spoil lift. In other words they counter act the natural lift of the car. So when the front spoiler breaks, the lift takes over and flips the car. An alternative way of saying it is weight is bad except for getting traction. The more lift the less weight.
:drink::drink:
 

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How does cowl induction relate to this. I thought I read somewhere that the air at the base of the windshield was ideal for an intake charge......
 

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goatee said:
How does cowl induction relate to this. I thought I read somewhere that the air at the base of the windshield was ideal for an intake charge......
I don't know anything about cowl induction, but I do know that at the base of the windshield (and at the nose of the car as well), there is a high pressure area.

The Hp area @ the nose is probably the origin of ram air, whatever truth (or not) there is in that technology.
 

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That has always puzzled me. The air pressure would be highest at the nose of the car followed by the base of the wind shield but that is because there is a stagnation point because of the change in geometery. If you put a hole (scoop) in that spot then there is no longer an impediment to the air flow and the pressure would no longer be high. Kind of a "catch 22"
:drink::drink:
 

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Feynman fan
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Think about it this way - the air flowing over the hood, from grill towards windshield, hits the windshield and has to go somewhere. Moving up the windshield and over the roof means pushing the air above it out of the way; likewise with moving to the sides - it has to push air out of the way in order to go around the windshield. It takes force to move that air that's "in the way" - the pressure builds until it can exert sufficient strength to push itself though and then it stays at that pressure (whatever it is) in a state of dynamic equilibrium.
 

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All I know is that when I installed a bug deflector shield in the front lip of the hood in my Chevy Avalanche, I rarely got bugs splattered on my windshield anymore. Now if I can only harness all that wind power and air deflection and somehow route it towards my airbox, then I'll be set.

Or I could just be out of mind and bored to death........
 

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A few things to mention...

The under the bumper scoop was used by Oldsmobile way back in the day. Seemed to work decently but was marketed more as a "Ram Air" deal but was truly a "outside air induction" system... They later switched to a "hood oriented OAI" system... ;)

The aftermarket for the Ford Mustang has used these under the bumper scoops for years with mixed results. Some say it helped.. whatever...

As for cowl induction and the high pressure area at the base of the windshield, well when GM/Chevrolet did that, the angle of attack of the "windscreen" was a hell of a lot more severe than today's cars. That really helped the "high pressure" factor.. :D

I would think a NASCAR opening would be about the best deal for most "cowl induction" systems but then again, they are FORCED to use that system...

Another note, it's been proven that the use of a "hole" in the front bumper of the car has its drawbacks too. On a Mustang racecar I work with, the hole created some strange tuning events because of turbulance. (???) We made some "adjustments" to the hole and it solved some of them, however, the new car is getting the turbo inlet inside the engine bay...

I think I'll be ripping some air box parts out of the car this weekend to see what's what in there... :D

Ed
 
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