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Captain Thread Killer returns
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21,898 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
:( How long do we have to keep hearing about this.........

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/06/27/iraq.main/index.html

Another hostage.....


Are we going to sit by and let another American die this way?

I recently saw video footage of the south korean man being decapitated......The poor guy was screaming in english "please I dont want to die"...........

This must be stopped.......... :(
 

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The fact the poor bloke was screaming in English shows the 'target market' for this sort of stuff - not necessarily just the South Koreans. It's like they want Iraq to be a new Afghanistan; no foreigners at all, no evil influences from the outside world. How can they expect sympathy from anyone?
 

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Oh my f*ck!
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6,464 Posts
Nuclear weapons would stop it. Yep. But then we'd have to deal with roving motorcycle and car gangs searching for gasoline. But Mel Gibson would protect us from Tina Turner so it'd be ok.

In all seriousness, I think the best thing we could do would be to pull the hell out of the Middle East and let them all kill themselves. But that's just me. And my officemates. At the Navy base where I work. *shrugs*
 

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Gone but not forgotten
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4,672 Posts
unfortanetly, if we were to pull out completly right now i think that we would lose everything that we have gained. the deaths of all of our service members would be in vain. all that would happen is a new ruler would come to power. one that makes saddam look "docile and nice".

its one of those things you either do completly or never start at all.
 

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The GTO Devil...
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1,572 Posts
I dunno man...I have my questions about this whole thing, none of which will ever get answered, things will change in November, I don't think the public like to be lied to ( WMD ). Personally I think Bush had not done the right thing at all, ( how do you not listen and follow the UN and ecpect others to when the the US does not ? ) guy has got to go. now all you Bush fanatics don't get all nutzo on me , just my 2 cents, That old money texas oil regime has limited days, but you never know It may come down to florida again, and we all know who's brother works down there.
 

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Can't help ya, Sorry.
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14,481 Posts
I tend to stay out of political and religious discussions on this board. If I do not respond to comments after this post please forgive me.

Long before Bush #'s 1 and 2, the radical Muslim world declared Jihad against the United States and their allies. They have attacked us and our interests on a regular basis, gaining confidence with each attack because our response was soft and ineffective. At most we hunted down and jailed people who are willing to give up their life for their cause. This is seen as weak by Islamic culture and only served to bolster their confidence and intention. They only respect strength. We showed strength in the first months of the war and we backed off. This was a grave mistake. The only real solution to Iraq is to enter with force and purpose and route out those 10% of the population who have sworn to kill all Americans. We build new infrastructure and they tare it down. They are killing their own people if those people are suspected of sympathizing with the united states. If we leave it will prove to the radical Islamic population that we are weak and vulnerable. The attacks on our nation will increase and we will face yet another tragedy that will dwarf the Trade Center event of 9/11.

I don't like Bushes current actions, I belive he is too soft and is bowing to the international community. We are afraid of war, it is brutal and the costs run far deeper than most living Americans understand. Courage is the ability to face your fears and proceed down the path of your convictions. We did not start this but we do have the ability to finish it if we act with conviction and purpose.

hate me if you will. These are my beliefs.
 

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Ephemeral.
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56 Posts
It's impossible to stop acts like this.

People need to realize this will never end. It's a gross misunderstanding on the part of the government and people in general to say "Oh maybe we'll be fight this war for 10, 15 years." Terrorism it self is impossible to route out unless we turn into some kind of society like that of Equilibrium where emotions are phased out through the forceful use of drugs. Terrorism = Anger = Base human emotion. This is a war against ourselves, and good luck beating yourself in a war.

So when you say how long until we stop this, I suggest you rephrase the question to how long until we cut down on this and we can stomach the atrocities that come with war.

sxty8goats, i'm going to go the complete other way on how you feel about Bush. He clearly hasn't bowed to the international community. If anything he's been rather painfully childish with the gung-ho idiocy saying we can take on everybody and we don't need permission. Rumsfeld and the war planners at the Pentagon should be directly to blame for the massive strategic failure in Iraq. Rumsfeld specifically wanted a quick, precise war involving special forces and he wanted to use the bulk of the infantry as police. Well that's great and all, but dropping a limited amount of troops into a country which is surrounded on almost all sides by enemies isn't the most brilliant move in the history of warfare.
 

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Growing up is an option
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17,296 Posts
is there the same angst when people are killed here in the united states EVERY DAY? some of those deaths are even more sensless. children killed by their mothers, gang killing on the streets, killings over tennis shoes or $50 at the convience store. let's put this all in perspective. sensationalism by the news makes it news.
one thing i think both sides would agree about if they thought it over is the conflict in the middle east is over oil. my take on it is that if we "left them alone" they would use the money from the oil to attack us. there are i'm sure people in africa willing to stamp us out too. we don't have as much to worry about from them because they do not have the resources to accomplish it. oil makes it possible. i don't think we're fighting as much OVER the oil as what the oil ENABLES someone to do.
 

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Can't help ya, Sorry.
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Discrepancy said:
sxty8goats, i'm going to go the complete other way on how you feel about Bush. He clearly hasn't bowed to the international community. If anything he's been rather painfully childish with the gung-ho idiocy saying we can take on everybody and we don't need permission. Rumsfeld and the war planners at the Pentagon should be directly to blame for the massive strategic failure in Iraq. Rumsfeld specifically wanted a quick, precise war involving special forces and he wanted to use the bulk of the infantry as police. Well that's great and all, but dropping a limited amount of troops into a country which is surrounded on almost all sides by enemies isn't the most brilliant move in the history of warfare.
I do not dissagree if you state that is the way we entered this war. You description of Rumfeilds mistakes are accurate in my opinion.

But now, and shortlly after the capture of Sadam, Bush went soft on the war. He seems to be trying to "Play Nice" with the international comunity. In like a bull out like a cat. I feel that we should have put down more troups, Hit harder and routed out those who opposed us. Once you decide a course, stick to it.

And for all the democrats that feel Algore should be president. God help us all if he was when 9/11 became a historic date.
 

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This is nothing new sorry to say. Media and war brings a new dynamic in reporting this stuff all over the world. It doesn't matter if it is a general, a politician, or women and children. If you take a prisoner and execute them you call down the wrath of the entire US military. I would never negotiate for one life, i would take 1000's.

Here is a letter circulating the internet with origins from a current military personel that sums up my opinion on the matter....

This letter is for Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, ''Islamic Response,'' and the rest
>of the so-called "insurgents" in Iraq. I obviously do not have an e-mail
>address for these vermin, so I am forwarding this letter to my entire
>address book in the hope you good people will forward it to as many people
>as possible, and that eventually through the miracle of the internet it
>somehow ends up in the hands of the intended recipients. Thank you all for
>your assistance.
>
>This is from my good friend and fellow 3/4 vet. It sums up my feelings as
>well.
>
>To the terrorists currently operating in Iraq,
>
>I see that you have captured a U. S. Marine, and that you plan to cut off
>his head if your demands are not met. Big mistake. Before you carry out your
>threat I suggest you read up on Marine Corps history. The Japanese tried the
>same thing on Makin Island and in a few other places during World War Two,
>and came to regret it. Go ahead and read about what then happened to the
>mighty Imperial Army on Tarawa, Iwo Jima and Okinawa. They paid full price
>for what they did, and you will too.
>
>You look at America and you see a soft target, and to a large extent you are
>right. Our country is filled with a lot of spoiled people who drive BMWs,
>sip decaf lattes and watch ridiculous reality TV shows. They are for the
>most part decent, hard working citizens, but they are soft. When you cut off
>Nick Berg's head those people gasped, and you got the media coverage you
>sought, and then those people went back to their lives. This time it is
>different. We also have a warrior culture in this country, and they are
>called Marines. It is a brotherhood forged in the fire of many wars, and the
>bond between us is stronger than blood. While it is true that this country
>has produced nitwits like Michael Moore, Howard Dean and Jane Fonda who can
>be easily manipulated by your gruesome tactics, we have also produced men
>like Jason Dunham, Brian Chontosh and Joseph Perez. If you don't recognize
>those names you should. They are all Marines who distinguished themselves
>fighting to liberate Iraq, and there will be many more just like them coming
>for you.
>
>Before the current politically correct climate enveloped our culture one of
>the recruiting slogans of our band of brothers was "The Marine Corps Builds
>Men." You will soon find out just how true that is. You, on the other hand,
>are nothing but a bunch of women. If you were men you would show your faces,
>and take us on in a fair fight. Instead, you are cowards who hide behind
>masks and decapitate helpless victims. If you truly represented the interest
>of the Iraqi people you would not be ambushing those who come to your
>country to repair your power plants, or sabotage the oil pipelines which
>fuel the Iraqi economy. Your agenda is hate, plain and simple.
>
>When you raise that sword over your head I want you to remember one thing.
>Corporal Wassef Ali Hassoun is not alone as he kneels before you. Every
>Marine who has ever worn the uniform is there with him, and when you strike
>him you are striking all of us. If you think the Marines were tough on you
>when they were cleaning out Fallujah a few weeks ago you haven't seen
>anything yet. If you want to know what it feels like to have the Wrath of
>God called down upon you then go ahead and do it. We are not Turkish truck
>drivers, or Pakistani laborers, or independent contractors hoping to find
>work in your country. We are the United States Marines, and we will be
>coming for you.
>

USA #1
 

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Ephemeral.
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56 Posts
sxty8goats said:
I do not dissagree if you state that is the way we entered this war. You description of Rumfeilds mistakes are accurate in my opinion.

But now, and shortlly after the capture of Sadam, Bush went soft on the war. He seems to be trying to "Play Nice" with the international comunity. In like a bull out like a cat. I feel that we should have put down more troups, Hit harder and routed out those who opposed us. Once you decide a course, stick to it.

And for all the democrats that feel Algore should be president. God help us all if he was when 9/11 became a historic date.
I agree Bush has "lightened up", as it were. But the only reason he's lightened up is because of the failure of the war plan it self, and that we now find ourself in the situation of being stretched fairly thin militarily. It's clear we need the support in Iraq, and I guess softening up is a way to get that.

As for the Al Gore comment, I don't know what to say. I'd hope if Al Gore was President 9/11 wouldn't have happened because hopefully he would've paid attention to the PDB titled "Bin Laden Determined To Strike in US" and noticed how it said that "FBI information since that time indicates patterns of suspicious activity in this country consistent with preperations for hijackings or other types of attacks, including recent surveillance of Federal Buildings in New York."
 

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Can't help ya, Sorry.
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Discrepancy said:
"
I'd hope if Al Gore was President 9/11 wouldn't have happened because hopefully he would've paid attention to the PDB titled "Bin Laden Determined To Strike in US" and noticed how it said that "FBI information since that time indicates patterns of suspicious activity in this country consistent with preperations for hijackings or other types of attacks, including recent surveillance of Federal Buildings in New York."
We knew they wanted to take the towers down, They tried real hard under Clinton and almost made it. Their plan was executed, it just failed. For those who don't remember, they set off a van bomb in the parking garage in the hope of bringing one tower down and possibly tumbling it into the one next to it.

I personally do not belive that Algore or Bush could have done anything differently to stop the attacks. If Al had been president I would not be saying "Bush wouldn't have let that happen." The machine did not work. By that I mean that our inelegance community failed. Hind site is 20-20. Looking back it is always easy to say "If person A said X then all of this would never have happened." There is 100 years of responsibility for the attacks on the towers.

I'm not a huge fan of either party. They both have their good and bad sides. And both parties have perverted their message and goals to the point that it is no longer about governing the people it has become a "Man on the mountain" sort of thing. Heck, one time "Conservative" refered to government involvement. Now the Conservatives want to ban gay marriage. Via the Constitution. I can not agree with any Constitution amendment that Prohibits a persons rights.
 
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