LS1GTO Forums banner
1 - 20 of 28 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,064 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok I've clayed my car, waxed it with cleaner wax,put two coats of Meguiars #26. The question is how many coats is to much. The more coats you put on the deeper the shine but at some point will there be to much build up? Just want to when to stop.

Thanx
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,773 Posts
Two should be fine. Use a quick detailer in between. If you driving the winter add one more. then strip and start from scratch in spring.
 

·
Detailing Guru
Joined
·
249 Posts
smyla said:
Don't worry. The Meguiars wears off with each wash and rain.

If you're referring to #26, no it doesn't. If you're referring to Quik Detailer, yeah it probably does.

As for how many coats, any more than three is probably the point of diminishing returns. I do two to ensure even, total coverage, and one for good luck.
 

·
IRESQWOLFDOGS
Joined
·
2,052 Posts
" No. 26 Hi-tech Liquid Yellow Wax is Meguiar’s best liquid carnauba wax. No. 26 is a blend of Brazilian Yellow Carnauba Wax, polymers, resins, and silicones for excellent durability. This wax wipes on easily and does not dry white. It can be applied by hand or with a buffer and is safe for all paints and clear coats."

carnuba (the base of this product): water soluable and is less optically perfect they polymer polishes

silicones: water soluable and attracts dust and dirt and is abrassive

the gloss goes when you wash the car... the gloss deminishes if you drive in the rain. fact.
 

·
Detailing Guru
Joined
·
249 Posts
wolfdogs said:
" No. 26 Hi-tech Liquid Yellow Wax is Meguiar’s best liquid carnauba wax. No. 26 is a blend of Brazilian Yellow Carnauba Wax, polymers, resins, and silicones for excellent durability. This wax wipes on easily and does not dry white. It can be applied by hand or with a buffer and is safe for all paints and clear coats."

carnuba (the base of this product): water soluable and is less optically perfect they polymer polishes

silicones: water soluable and attracts dust and dirt and is abrassive

the gloss goes when you wash the car... the gloss deminishes if you drive in the rain. fact.
There is a difference between "wearing off" which is what I was addressing, and losing some gloss. To me, wearing off implies the product is gone, or diminished to the point it serves no benefit. The #26 is carnauba based, but as it states in the description, also has polymers for added protection and gloss. If you're claiming that silicones are abrasive, I'd like to know where that information came from. I have been using Zaino since 1999. I used it exclusively for 5 years. I've used #26 for several months now and can claim that it does NOT wear off after a wash or rain. Fact.

Zaino attracts dust and dirt as well. Not as much as a carnauba, but it still collects dust. It may RINSE dust/dirt off easier but that makes the dust/dirt accumulation no less abrasive than dust over a carnauba.

What are the factors that determine if a product has worn off? Subjective observations about gloss? If there is a scientific method to test for the presence of a protective barrier, I'd sure like to know. Beading? Better think again, some waxes/sealants are designed to sheet water, not bead.
 

·
1967 Firebird HO Conv. M3
Joined
·
176 Posts
Carnuaba is not water soluble, otherwise it would just be reduced with water for application rather than petro distillates. Carnauba is harder than parafin wax or beeswax and has a much higher melting point (180-185F).

Carnauba is not optically clear though since it's natural color can be from yellow to brown. Processed carnaubas like Pinnacle P12S have much clearer optical qualities which is why it is one of the most popular waxes among pro detailers.

Solubility: Insoluble in water; quite soluble in fat solvents at 25° C

See MSDS:

http://www.i-sctc.com/MSDS_Carnauba Wax.htm
 

·
Detailing Guru
Joined
·
249 Posts
This is true.

In it's natural state, carnauba is hard as a rock. Petroleum distillates and other chemicals have to be added to make it user friendly. The maximum amount of actual carnauba wax you can have in your "wax" is a little over 30%.

Most people hear Carnauba and think Turtle Wax. Today's carnaubas are fortified with polymers and are super user friendly. Check out Pinnacle waxes, for example. It's not uncommon to get 3 months durability from a carnauba, which isn't as much as you'll get with most sealants, but to some, carnaubas look better, and are more fun to work with. Meguiar's #16 Paste Wax (discontinued) had durability that would rival most sealants, and Collinite Insulator Wax #845 and Paste Wax #476 will put some sealants to shame.
 

·
IRESQWOLFDOGS
Joined
·
2,052 Posts
I've had these discussions so much over the years it makes me puke..LOL

just offering what I have learned, been shown, proven, yada yada over the many many years of detailing experience... since 1965 to be exact...and not in the driveway alone..... ive been in the automotive career field my whole job life......32+ years to be exact... alot of that is lab work...though im not a "polish and paint" professional... i have been around plenty... who take the time to show me "thier stuff"......like i take the time to show them mine.....(tires)

carnuba car waxes ARE water soluable.

silicone has a mild abrassive effect on clear coat. it "attracts" dirt as well.

since you brought up Zaino..and I didnt, on purpose... it does not attract dust or dirt... unless you fail to use the z6 or utlra gloss afterspray...which reduce the static electric effect of any polish...carnuba based products attract and hold dirt particles.

im not saying that your wax will be totally gone after you wash the car...i said it demishes and the gloss is greatly reduced.

a simple test: the 5 min. water test. take a hose...put the nozzel on spray... spray the product treated area for 5 min...without stopping..... dry. see whats left. you will be surprised how many of these fine auto waxes, polishes, you can eliminate from your aresonal.

then nice thing about zaino's product is that it forms a barrier which bugs and tar do not penetrate... the acid from bugs does not etch the clear coat ...tar wipes right off. most carnuba based products do not have this characteristic... as the bug acid does penetrate and is "held" by the product... as is tar and other road crud.....

i didnt post here to argue......just offer true experience. if you dont like what i said.......ignore it... its not ment to be abrassive to you... its true proven expeirence... just another ingredient to mix in the batter thats been pouring out to answer you post..........

bottom line is using the product that makes you happy with your car... even if its wesson oil or peanut butter..... ;)
 

·
IRESQWOLFDOGS
Joined
·
2,052 Posts
another good test to do, that shows the sealing protection level, is to do one half the roof with one product and the other half with another. drive for a month..wash the roof.. (you can add layers during the month if you like). then take a clay bar, brand new...cut it in half. clay one side with one piece and the other with the other piece. compare the amount of contamination removed.....
 

·
Detailing Guru
Joined
·
249 Posts
To say Zaino doesn't attract dust or dirt is a bit over the top. I use Z6 and Z8 extensively. Carnauba attracts more dust. Zaino does NOT keep dust from settling on the car, period. I haven't found a product yet that does, although Tropi-Care TC-3 with the TC-5 over top is pretty anti-static.

I'm not here to argue Zaino vs. anything. Zaino is wonderful, I use it a lot. I also use a lot of other car care products and am pretty well versed in paint care. Zaino is NOT the only bug proof, silicone free, durable paint sealant on the market.

The 5 minute hose test doesn't really matter, because as I mentioned earlier, not all products react the same to water. A lot of Meguiar's products are designed to sheet water rather than bead, which is another debate in and of itself. Beading water may have adverse effects on your paint. Think of each little bead like a magnifying glass, whereas sheeting water off the paint gets rid of the majority of the standing water.

This debate is age old, and it all comes down to personal preference. There is nothing wrong with Meg's #26, Zaino, Pinnacle Souveran, Poorboy's Natty's Wax, Four Star Ultimate Paint Protection, Wolfgang Deep Gloss Paint Sealant, Collinite waxes, Klasse/Jeff's Werkstatt, Mother's, Finish Kare, Sonus, Meg's #21, Meg's NXT, Eagle One Nano, et al.

They all have their ups and downs, contrary to popular belief...

Oh, and the claybar test would be okay, if you were driving around in a controlled environment, where the entire car got equal amounts of exposure to any and all airborne contaminants. Sounds good in theory, not so much in application.
 

·
Detailing Guru
Joined
·
249 Posts
By the way, I'm not trying to insult anyone's intelligence or even call anybody out. Just stirring the pot a little I guess...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,477 Posts
Carnuaba can't take the heat like a polymer. On a sunny day, the surface of your car can exceed 190 degrees and vaporize that carnauba. In the winter, this shouldn't be an issue in most areas.
 

·
Detailing Guru
Joined
·
249 Posts
dsclark said:
Carnuaba can't take the heat like a polymer. On a sunny day, the surface of your car can exceed 190 degrees and vaporize that carnauba. In the winter, this shouldn't be an issue in most areas.
Yeah, that's one thing that worries me a little with carnauba, as the hood/roof of my car gets very hot in the summer. However, my car is not a DD so I don't worry as much about that. If durability is your main concern, a paint sealant (or Collinite wax) is definitely your best bet, although many of today's carnaubas are "fortified" with polymers, so durability is probably a little better than some might expect. It's hard to say for sure.
 

·
1967 Firebird HO Conv. M3
Joined
·
176 Posts
dsclark said:
Carnuaba can't take the heat like a polymer. On a sunny day, the surface of your car can exceed 190 degrees and vaporize that carnauba. In the winter, this shouldn't be an issue in most areas.
Carnauba does not vaporize (unless heated beyond it's boiling point):

Vapor Pressure: Negligible

Vapor Density: Not available

Evaporation Rate: Negligible
 

·
Belch
Joined
·
943 Posts
JHawk said:
If durability is your main concern, a paint sealant (or Collinite wax) is definitely your best bet, although many of today's carnaubas are "fortified" with polymers, so durability is probably a little better than some might expect.
Great to see someone give props to Collinite -- because it's fantastic stuff. Personally, I switched over from Carnuba paste to Klasse All In One and Klasse Sealant a few years ago -- and haven't looked back since. Great thread. Very informative.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,158 Posts
I use meguiars #26, and I only use one coat. I haven't waxed it in a month because being busy with school, and I think it still looks pretty good.
 

·
Detailing Guru
Joined
·
249 Posts
OrangeCrushM6 said:
Use Zaino and you won't have to worry how many coats. Nuff Said! Zaino
kicks Mequiers aZZ up and down the street all day long.
Hmm, well let's see.... Sal Zaino touts, on the Zainostore website, that the appearance is enhanced with each additional layer. Also, with Z5, to hide swirls, Sal recommends numerous coats for best results. Zaino is non abrasive and optically perfect (supposedly). Wonder why that would be? Maybe because it's designed to be layered.

As I said before, the only reason I do more than one layer is to ensure even and total coverage of the paint with the wax or sealant. Nuff said? Not hardly. If this Mcquiers you speak of is the same as Meguiar's, they're hardly new on the paint care scene. They've been around since the early 1900's and know a thing or two about paint care. Ever try their M21 synthetic sealant? Ever try any other sealant besides Zaino, or are you just assuming it's the best because you're happy with the results.
 

·
Detailing Guru
Joined
·
249 Posts
Harpo said:
Great to see someone give props to Collinite -- because it's fantastic stuff. Personally, I switched over from Carnuba paste to Klasse All In One and Klasse Sealant a few years ago -- and haven't looked back since. Great thread. Very informative.
The Klasse twins are very nice products. You might check out Jeff Werkstatt's Prime and Acrylic Jett/Acrylic Jett Trigger. They're based upon the same basic foundation as the Klasse twins, but with a little newer technology infused. They're top notch products, and even easier to use than Klasse with even better results, IMO.
 
1 - 20 of 28 Posts
Top