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Track "Que" Dog
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219 Posts
Comfort vs handling

I imagine you have it at its softest reasonable setting on the way to those events and expansion joints still cause you discomfort?
Four clicks from softest up front and 2 from soft out back... I'd say annoying more so than discomfort. The otherwise "smooth" handling while hwy cruising and flat out crisp turn in during spirited driving makes this upgrade from stock well worth it. Sways are full soft up front and in the middle in back. Plan to move 1 position firmer up front. Ran my car as-is at Roebling Road on allseason DWS (with no adjustments) and had a blast. Next trip out will be on R1Rs thus the firmer adjustment up front. More feedback then.
 

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Wol Gemut
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3,235 Posts
well, hoping it is your sways that are the source of annoyance then. :) I'll find out soon enough in person how coilover ride is. I look forward to it.
 

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Registered
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1,339 Posts
I run the KW V3s on my GTO, and I wouldn't trade them for anything. We also had the V3s on our 2010 Camaro SS and they were outstanding. We just recently went with the BC coilovers on the car because - on the Camaro - they use a thinner shock body, which allowed us to run more negative camber. They are certainly softer and they actually seem to be a little better for drag racing because they have a little more give to them.

I've said it in the past, and I think it rings true: KW = Race/Street and BC = Street/Race. haha

- Kevin
 

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Lots of oranges=Lots of mods
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536 Posts
I have the oldest set of KW's on a GTO. I still love them, But granted they are not for everyone. Mine are 7 years old, but I only drive the car about 3,000 miles per year. My back and kidneys are still intact, the only drawback is getting the grin off my face after a drive.
This was a great write up.
 

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Premium Member
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240 Posts
I know this probably won't have much bearing on anything but I chose not to go with BCs because they are 100% made in China. I just have a hard time going that way. Don't crucify me too bad, I'm sure that has no bearing on anything for a lot of people. What comes in to play is that the KWs are much more expensive so are you paying for much better quality or not? I think it would be nice for people to post long term results after some mild to decent abuse and see what's up from there.
 

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Registered
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450 Posts
I know this probably won't have much bearing on anything but I chose not to go with BCs because they are 100% made in China. I just have a hard time going that way. Don't crucify me too bad, I'm sure that has no bearing on anything for a lot of people. What comes in to play is that the KWs are much more expensive so are you paying for much better quality or not? I think it would be nice for people to post long term results after some mild to decent abuse and see what's up from there.
I struggled with that as well, but there is no other setup for the front that does what I want it to do. KWs are prohibitively expensive for me. I am, at least, purchasing Konis and Kings for the rear.
 

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Riding solo
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2,194 Posts
Great write up! What does 7-9kg convert to in lbs? What are the KW springs rated at?

George
 

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05' CGM GTO
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3,548 Posts
Discussion Starter #48
7kg is 392lb/inch 9 kg is 500lb/inch
Give or take a couple lbs/inch]

Kw fronts are 515lbs
Kw rears are 570 progressive rate to 1000 also give or take a little bit.

Flink had a post here somewere testing the kw rear springs. Thats were i got the rear numbers which might not be exact...
He also noted that the springs would never compress nearly enough to ever see 1000lb/inch in the gto.
He was testing peoples concern about the middle coils resting on each other and the springs strength. needless to say.. it passed lol
I dont know the name of the thread but its on here somewere
 

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Registered
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1,236 Posts
I know this probably won't have much bearing on anything but I chose not to go with BCs because they are 100% made in China. I just have a hard time going that way. Don't crucify me too bad, I'm sure that has no bearing on anything for a lot of people. What comes in to play is that the KWs are much more expensive so are you paying for much better quality or not? I think it would be nice for people to post long term results after some mild to decent abuse and see what's up from there.
Crucify you???? It has a lot of bearing on everything. I wish there were alot more people like you. We need to get our economy moving not china's. So i congratulate you.
Unfortunatley i bought the bc's. At the time i did not know there was a alternative other than pedders which are supposedly made in the same place.
 

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50 Posts
Just because I haven't seen both the front and the rear shock dyno plots for the BC's on this forum, here they are for anyone who wants them. I contacted BC and this is what they sent. Note that the damping rates are different for the front and the rear.
 

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05' CGM GTO
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3,548 Posts
Discussion Starter #52 (Edited)
Just because I haven't seen both the front and the rear shock dyno plots for the BC's on this forum, here they are for anyone who wants them. I contacted BC and this is what they sent. Note that the damping rates are different for the front and the rear.
Nice addition to the post.. now lets get one from KW and make it real fun

Although im still trying to understand the dyno.
Is this like click to click differences? why are there 4 lines?

The fronts definatly go way stiffer than the rears.. but i noticed this in my adjustments too
 

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It is great to have information like this. But I would check the dates of the tests. August 2008. Assuming 6 months lead time, look at when these struts came out. My question would be are these truly the damper graphs for the GTO or some other vehicle?

mike
dms
 

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05' CGM GTO
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3,548 Posts
Discussion Starter #54 (Edited)
if they even changed the damper settings for the gto.
IM willing the bet the reason there dampers go so overdampend is because they are a multi fit situation.
considering everything is threaded.. they can make it fit on any car by threading on a differant mount relatively easy.
Thread on new mounts and pick some balanced spring rates and they got a setup for a new car lol hence the reason they can get you any spring rate you want.

they do say if you order 2 rates higher than what they give you for the car they revalve them for you before they ship them so they probably have certain ranges for whatever coils they are being shipped with.

BUT, this is just a guess of course.

WHat i dont get is why they chose 7-9 kg rates for the gto and higher rates for lighter cars... they gave a civic 10kg front coils which is like 1500lbs lighter than us... They also gave the srt8 charger 14 F 14 R thats like 784lbs/inch holy crap lol it is heavier than us but damm

here is the list for the hell of it if anyone is curious

http://www.bcracing-na.com/downloads/BC_RACING_APPLICATION_LIST.pdf
 

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Nice addition to the post.. now lets get one from KW and make it real fun

Although im still trying to understand the dyno.
Is this like click to click differences? why are there 4 lines?

The fronts definatly go way stiffer than the rears.. but i noticed this in my adjustments too
To understand the shock dyno, the blue lines represent the full hard setting measured through different velocities and the red lines represent full soft setting through different velocities. You can interpolate the other settings between these two line sets. I believe the top lines are for rebound and the bottom lines are for compression. And yes it appears that the compression values do not change much with different settings, not sure why. If you look around, other members have discussed these dynos extensively. I just wanted to add that the front and rear are different, as I have not seen this in other posts.

As for the dynos being current, I got these plots directly from BC a few weeks ago, so they better be current or I am going to be mad at the BC Tech support guys. Also, they told me this specifically for the GTO,
"For daily driving we usually set up customer vehicles 18 clicks from full soft. It provides just enough rebound and stiffness to taste but still drivable. If you are in a track setting, depending on the road conditions (smooth track and smooth transitions) I would suggest going to full stiff to get the maximum performance available."

I would add that I don't completely agree with the full hard setting for maximum performance statement as my calculations show this would be quite over-damped and thus unless the track is glass smooth your not really helping things going that hard. I use 16 clicks away from full soft on the front and 15 clicks in the rear for DD, I might go up to 20 or so for track duty but not full hard.
 

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Registered
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if they even changed the damper settings for the gto.
IM willing the bet the reason there dampers go so overdampend is because they are a multi fit situation.
considering everything is threaded.. they can make it fit on any car by threading on a differant mount relatively easy.
Thread on new mounts and pick some balanced spring rates and they got a setup for a new car lol hence the reason they can get you any spring rate you want.

they do say if you order 2 rates higher than what they give you for the car they revalve them for you before they ship them so they probably have certain ranges for whatever coils they are being shipped with.

BUT, this is just a guess of course.

WHat i dont get is why they chose 7-9 kg rates for the gto and higher rates for lighter cars... they gave a civic 10kg front coils which is like 1500lbs lighter than us... They also gave the srt8 charger 14 F 14 R thats like 784lbs/inch holy crap lol it is heavier than us but damm

here is the list for the hell of it if anyone is curious

http://www.bcracing-na.com/downloads/BC_RACING_APPLICATION_LIST.pdf
This is just speculation for thought as I don't know the answer for sure, but keep in mind that our suspension geometry might be different than these other cars and remember that spring rates don't increase the force applied by the car, they just determine how much the cars loading will compress the spring until equilibrium is reached. If the suspension geometry loads the springs with some kind of mechanical advantage or moment arm, then the spring rate may need to be higher in order to compensate. There are a lot of reasons as to why certain spring rates may be chosen, these are just a few for thought. I am sure someone else may know the answer for sure and feel free to chime in.
 

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05' CGM GTO
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3,548 Posts
Discussion Starter #57 (Edited)
To understand the shock dyno, the blue lines represent the full hard setting measured through different velocities and the red lines represent full soft setting through different velocities. You can interpolate the other settings between these two line sets. I believe the top lines are for compression and the bottom lines are for rebound. And yes it appears that the rebound values do not change much with different settings, not sure why. If you look around, other members have discussed these dynos extensively. I just wanted to add that the front and rear are different, as I have not seen this in other posts.

As for the dynos being current, I got these plots directly from BC a few weeks ago, so they better be current or I am going to be mad at the BC Tech support guys. Also, they told me this specifically for the GTO,
"For daily driving we usually set up customer vehicles 18 clicks from full soft. It provides just enough rebound and stiffness to taste but still drivable. If you are in a track setting, depending on the road conditions (smooth track and smooth transitions) I would suggest going to full stiff to get the maximum performance available."

I would add that I don't completely agree with the full hard setting for maximum performance statement as my calculations show this would be quite over-damped and thus unless the track is glass smooth your not really helping things going that hard. I use 16 clicks away from full soft on the front and 15 clicks in the rear for DD, I might go up to 20 or so for track duty but not full hard.
Thanks alot
I dont agree with the damper settings bc reccommended either. No way would i run full stiff for anything.
If you think you have to run full stiff to handle better, you have never driven a car with properly dampend stiffer springs. Full stiff dampers will definatly sacrifice lap times IMO.
(when i say you i dont mean YOU, i mean people in general)
For the record, KWs stiffer springs ride and handle better than the bcs with damper settings that high... overdampening is never a faster way around the track than being properly sprung.
Anyone who finds themselves over 15clicks off full soft constantly needs to think about changing there springs instead. The results will be far superior.
For a random time here and there its one thing.. but for anyone who drives at like 8 clicks off full stiff (which is what mine were set to out of the box)... you would really benefit a stiffer spring and turning the dampers down a bit.
Unless for some reason you enjoy driving down the highway and bouncing all over the place .. which just makes cornering on a bumpy situation downright dangerous.
 

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Registered
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I know this probably won't have much bearing on anything but I chose not to go with BCs because they are 100% made in China. I just have a hard time going that way. Don't crucify me too bad, I'm sure that has no bearing on anything for a lot of people. What comes in to play is that the KWs are much more expensive so are you paying for much better quality or not? I think it would be nice for people to post long term results after some mild to decent abuse and see what's up from there.

Can you even get KWs currently? Are they in stock anywhere? I checked a few of the sponsors to the left and no one had them listed.
 

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05' CGM GTO
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3,548 Posts
Discussion Starter #59
Goto Google and do a Pontiac gto kw coilover search.
You will find multiple sellers in the shopping section
None probably carry stock and probably come direct from kw. But no one usually stock bcs either. Mine were shipped directly from BC very quick
 
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