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Can't help ya, Sorry.
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If you look under the 2004-2006 year you will notice the name of Jonathan Schwenn. Many don't know who he is. This man is a walking encyclopedia of knowledge. He is also OLD SCHOOL. If there is anything you need to know on this car, that man can answer it. He's forgotten more about GTO's than most people could ever hope to learn.
This made me LOL. That is all I can say here out of respect for Jon. :) No lies there. Just made me chuckle.
 

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I told myself I would not get involved in this discussion however after seeing Dan E get lambasted, Morty turned on I thought well, I’ll add my 2 cents knowing full well I will be attacked as well. I read the venomous posts. I read where many are blaming the GTOAA for the actions of some pin heads in their organization. You are not going to change them. Instead of the new gen owners trying to bridge the gap between both old and new, the tirades I read are further dividing the gap. If there is to be growth on the new gen and be recognized by a premier organization it has to come from the new gen crowd. Walking around feeling scorned, harboring ill feelings and holding the GTOAA responsible for the actions of some will breed more resentment.

Feelings were hurt, get over it. I had no problems integrating. Maybe it’s the attitudes of 22 yr old kids with these cars the old timers are having a problem with? I have had my share of discussions with the old crowd. In fact I had one in NJ this past weekend. I didn’t feel like punching his face out, I didn’t challenge him to race or become confrontational. When the guy left me he got an education and a better understanding on this car. He learned some things he had no idea on. If I would have knocked him on his ass or chastised him the resentment would fester. Most of them are ignorant because they chose not to understand. Every old guy I have talked to learned something they didn’t know before. I even offered to let some drive mine. What I see going on here is the same thing new gen owners are accusing the old generations owners of. Finger pointing is not going to solve anything. There are probably as many aholes with new gens as there are with old ones.

If there is going to be a bridging of the gap and bring all together it will take the new generation crowd to do it. They can either stand up above the others or walk around pissed off. What I see is a bunch that would rather harbor ill feelings than try bridge the gap.
 

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Smurf off
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Well since my husband and Goatfest were mentioned several times in this thread I guess I'll toss in my 2 cents. First and foremost, Dan E, you have my utmost respect and gratitude for your service and the wonderful things you have done as our friend. I wish you good luck in this endevour.

Our experience with taking over Gulf Coast GTO's was nothing short of miserable. Bill was the president of Gulf Coast last year. It was a ton of work, and expense for Bill and I. We wanted an insurance policy for Goatfest so that we would not lose everything if someone decided to sue us. In this litigous society that is a real possiblity. Last year we bought a one day policy for a reasonable amount. If I had only known then what I know now, I could have saved my husband alot of work, money and aggravation. One of the things that bothered me the most was the snotty little jabs at Becky. HRJ is absolutely correct about the Autorama. Could not have been more unfair. They seemed to fight Bill every step of the way. He was between a rock and a hard place trying to please both sides and pleasing neither. There were too many problems to mention here. The last straw came when we put on a Digital scavanger hunt to raise money for their chosen charity. The car show they put on did not raise any money. Bill could not bear the idea that the charity didn't receive any money, so we decided to do this event. Bill and I put up the prize money, little gifts and trophies out of our pocket. (Like numerous other times) Only 2 of their members showed up for this event. This charity was chosen by the old timers because some of their members had benefited from it. (Neither here nor there, but I would have chosen Fisher House) The HGH showed up in full force that day. (On a side note, I miss those days) We assumed, incorrectly, that they wanted to get on board. This situation was a loser all around for us. It was too much aggravation for Bill and I, it created rifts between friends, and put a general feeling of ill will on events.

I am sorry to be such a downer Dan. But some of the old timers are set in their ways. Bill gave it a year, and the situation just couldn't get resolved. Once people get their feelings hurt sometimes, they just can't get over it. Bless your heart, you have taken on a daunting task. I wish you well.
ok...here is my opinoin and some of the HGH background.

Robert (LS2BlueGoat) and myself were big proponents of joining GTOAA...Bill got us on board and we approached GTOAA. We were told that we needed permission from the local chapter to have our own. We approached GCGTO's and asked...they said no...come join us and take over our charter...we talked and said ok. We (the HGH) began attending their meetings and ran for officers.

We won all of the positions by a landslide. The only position that was contested was mine (secretary). Feelings were hurt.

We sat down with the old and new board and planned what we wanted to accomlish before the year began. They (5 to 6 of the old guys) balked at everything that we did. The newsletter was never good enough, we got flack every month. The meetings were no good. it got to the point that the HGH members started to drift away from the BS. Instead of dealing with the animocity the HGH backed away.

My FINAL straw was when Robert and I were asked blatantly to step down because we adopted our son. That was my last straw!!!!!! Robert lost all respect at that moment in time for these people in GCGTO. For those of you who knew him...that says a lot right there. Robert was the calm voice of reason and compromise.

Now how does this relate to your current initiative of bringing member clubs? Allow clubs who want to join to do so as is without having to merge.
I know that the HGH took a big blow of morale with the merger to the point where there really is not much happening anymore. Now I don't think the merger was the only cause but I can guarantee that it is a factor....members called Robert and myself to explain that they couldnt put up with the changes that were imposed under GCGTO and they drifted away.

This is just my 2 cents as an interested party!
These are not the actions of uncoperative people, these are sick people. GTOAA, no way.
 

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Can't help ya, Sorry.
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Feelings were hurt, get over it. I had no problems integrating. Maybe it’s the attitudes of 22 yr old kids with these cars the old timers are having a problem with?
I spent three years letting insults roll over without taking, or at least showing, offense. I worked very hard to make sure my car was worthy of showing and made it a point to walk the shows talking to everyone there I could.

22 year old Kids? 80% of the owners of 04+ GTOs I hung out with were 30+. A few very mature 20 somethings as well.
 

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Mommy Goat!
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I told myself I would not get involved in this discussion however after seeing Dan E get lambasted, Morty turned on I thought well, I’ll add my 2 cents knowing full well I will be attacked as well. I read the venomous posts. I read where many are blaming the GTOAA for the actions of some pin heads in their organization. You are not going to change them. Instead of the new gen owners trying to bridge the gap between both old and new, the tirades I read are further dividing the gap. If there is to be growth on the new gen and be recognized by a premier organization it has to come from the new gen crowd. Walking around feeling scorned, harboring ill feelings and holding the GTOAA responsible for the actions of some will breed more resentment.

Feelings were hurt, get over it. I had no problems integrating. Maybe it’s the attitudes of 22 yr old kids with these cars the old timers are having a problem with? I have had my share of discussions with the old crowd. In fact I had one in NJ this past weekend. I didn’t feel like punching his face out, I didn’t challenge him to race or become confrontational. When the guy left me he got an education and a better understanding on this car. He learned some things he had no idea on. If I would have knocked him on his ass or chastised him the resentment would fester. Most of them are ignorant because they chose not to understand. Every old guy I have talked to learned something they didn’t know before. I even offered to let some drive mine. What I see going on here is the same thing new gen owners are accusing the old generations owners of. Finger pointing is not going to solve anything. There are probably as many aholes with new gens as there are with old ones.

If there is going to be a bridging of the gap and bring all together it will take the new generation crowd to do it. They can either stand up above the others or walk around pissed off. What I see is a bunch that would rather harbor ill feelings than try bridge the gap.
apparantly you did not read my entire post...we had an integrated club that was fine...and the feelings that were hurt did not belong to me...the belonged to the asshats in the club....I acknowledged that it wasn't the fault of GTOAA for the idiots we encountered...I encourage competition among clubs to make sure that the best clubs survive.

And to Echo sixty8goats....our demografic was between 30 and 60 years old with a family. I didn't blast DanE at all...I acknowledged what he is trying to do and I truly hope it works this way. I suggest you think about what is important...if you really think that the worst thing in my life is "ill feelings" about people that mean nothing to me...well then...there is nothing farther from the truth!

Have a nice day!!!!
 

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apparantly you did not read my entire post...we had an integrated club that was fine...and the feelings that were hurt did not belong to me...the belonged to the asshats in the club....I acknowledged that it wasn't the fault of GTOAA for the idiots we encountered...I encourage competition among clubs to make sure that the best clubs survive.

And to Echo sixty8goats....our demografic was between 30 and 60 years old with a family. I didn't blast DanE at all...I acknowledged what he is trying to do and I truly hope it works this way. I suggest you think about what is important...if you really think that the worst thing in my life is "ill feelings" about people that mean nothing to me...well then...there is nothing farther from the truth!

Have a nice day!!!!
I read all the posts. What I saw was a generalization attack on an organization based on some of the GTOAA members within. For those who feel slighted and want to walk around the rest of your lives sulking because your car isn't approved by some will just fester. And the guy who wanted to beat up some kids in a mall parking lot because they made a negative comment on his car? He got in their face then did a burn out? Immaturity.

There are many drivers in their early to late 20's, "TOP GUNS" with all the answers, attitudes to match, and party mentality driving these cars now. With that comes the in your face mentality. The very same people on this forum pointing fingers at the GTOAA are no better. Most of them won't have their cars 5-8 years from now. I've seen the combative attitudes. Maybe the older gen guys despise the attitudes of some younger drivers? 2 choices; Work to bridge the gap and grow the different generations as one despite narrow minded opinions of older generation owners, or; Point fingers at them and use them as an excuse to argue against doing so.

Our Club has a 50-50 mix of old and new we welcome all, even non GTO owners. We're doing are part. I'm always out mingling with older gen owners and talking up the new one. For every 1 negative I get I get 10 positives. Maybe some of the TOP GUNS on here should grow the hell up and be bigger than the older gen aholes and keep promoting the car to them instead of quitting because some guy don't like it.

As the older gen guys thin out the new gen crowd grows. In time the new gen crowd will be what the older gen guys are now. Being affiliated with a National Organization will get you prominent recognition than will having local venues.

If one doesn't want to be associated with the GTOAA so be it. Don't blame your reasons not to join because a few "old guys" have a negative attitude towards the new car and they hurt your feelings.
 

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I posted this on the PY forum. It's targeted at the "moron" Older gen owners.

There's been a lot of animosity spewing on the LS1 forum regarding old gen owners dissing new gen owners. With the comments by a few on here this makes their arguments all the more valid over and over again. As the older gen cars thin, the new gen crowd grows. In time they will be what the old gen crowd is now. With the attitudes they are seeing levied against them and with the thinning out of the older gens the work of preserving the GTO in time will suffer. It already has started, the GTOAA has seen a 5% drop in membership this past year. Many of the new gen crowd refuse to join the GTOAA because of the narrow minded pin headed comments.

Instead of trying to bridge the gap and bring both generations together for the good of the GTO both sides are intent on further dividing the gap. The owners of the new gen cars didn't design the car, they bought it. I for one bought mine because it says GTO others did too. These cars were marketed for the 40+ crowd now that they are affordable for the younger drivers, they are the key to preserving the heritage of the GTO despite what older gen guys think. When they show up at shows many are scorned. The resentment grows.

Instead of spitting on them why not go up and get an education on them? Talk to them, learn about the car, DRIVE ONE. Many of these guys put a lot of time, money, and effort in the car just like the older gen owners did back when. To go to shows and have pin heads verbally assault them breeds animosity. While I think they new gen crowd is the key to bridging the gap (many older guys are set in their ways) how many times do they try before they say F-it?

There are new gen owners and clubs out there growing in numbers. Instead of embracing them they are treated like a bastard child. The Old gen crowd is to blame as the GTOAA membership continues to dwindle.
 

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I posted this on the PY forum. It's targeted at the moron Older gen owners.

There's been a lot of animosity spewing on the LS1 forum regarding old gen owners dissing new gen owners. With the comments by a few on here this makes their arguments all the more valid over and over again. As the older gen cars thin, the new gen crowd grows. In time they will be what the old gen crowd is now. With the attitudes they are seeing levied against them and with the thinning out of the older gens the work of preserving the GTO in time will suffer. It already has started, the GTOAA has seen a 5% drop in membership this past year. Many of the new gen crowd refuse to join the GTOAA because of the narrow minded pin headed comments.

Instead of trying to bridge the gap and bring both generations together for the good of the GTO both sides are intent on further dividing the gap. The owners of the new gen cars didn't design the car, they bought it. I for one bought mine because it says GTO others did too. These cars were marketed for the 40+ crowd now that they are affordable for the younger drivers, they are the key to preserving the heritage of the GTO despite what older gen guys think. When they show up at shows many are scorned. The resentment grows.

Instead of spitting on them why not go up and get an education on them? Talk to them, learn about the car, DRIVE ONE. Many of these guys put a lot of time, money, and effort in the car just like the older gen owners did back when. To go to shows and have pin heads verbally assault them breeds animosity. While I think they new gen crowd is the key to bridging the gap (many older guys are set in their ways) how many times do they try before they say F-it?

There are new gen owners and clubs out there growing in numbers. Instead of embracing them they are treated like a bastard child. The Old gen crowd is to blame as the GTOAA membership continues to dwindle.

Excellent. Freakin' spot on.
 

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lol
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I posted this on the PY forum. It's targeted at the moron Older gen owners.

There's been a lot of animosity spewing on the LS1 forum regarding old gen owners dissing new gen owners. With the comments by a few on here this makes their arguments all the more valid over and over again. As the older gen cars thin, the new gen crowd grows. In time they will be what the old gen crowd is now. With the attitudes they are seeing levied against them and with the thinning out of the older gens the work of preserving the GTO in time will suffer. It already has started, the GTOAA has seen a 5% drop in membership this past year. Many of the new gen crowd refuse to join the GTOAA because of the narrow minded pin headed comments.

Instead of trying to bridge the gap and bring both generations together for the good of the GTO both sides are intent on further dividing the gap. The owners of the new gen cars didn't design the car, they bought it. I for one bought mine because it says GTO others did too. These cars were marketed for the 40+ crowd now that they are affordable for the younger drivers, they are the key to preserving the heritage of the GTO despite what older gen guys think. When they show up at shows many are scorned. The resentment grows.

Instead of spitting on them why not go up and get an education on them? Talk to them, learn about the car, DRIVE ONE. Many of these guys put a lot of time, money, and effort in the car just like the older gen owners did back when. To go to shows and have pin heads verbally assault them breeds animosity. While I think they new gen crowd is the key to bridging the gap (many older guys are set in their ways) how many times do they try before they say F-it?

There are new gen owners and clubs out there growing in numbers. Instead of embracing them they are treated like a bastard child. The Old gen crowd is to blame as the GTOAA membership continues to dwindle.
Excellent post... can't wait to see the response.
 

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I posted this on the PY forum. It's targeted at the moron Older gen owners.

There's been a lot of animosity spewing on the LS1 forum regarding old gen owners dissing new gen owners. With the comments by a few on here this makes their arguments all the more valid over and over again. As the older gen cars thin, the new gen crowd grows. In time they will be what the old gen crowd is now. With the attitudes they are seeing levied against them and with the thinning out of the older gens the work of preserving the GTO in time will suffer. It already has started, the GTOAA has seen a 5% drop in membership this past year. Many of the new gen crowd refuse to join the GTOAA because of the narrow minded pin headed comments.

Instead of trying to bridge the gap and bring both generations together for the good of the GTO both sides are intent on further dividing the gap. The owners of the new gen cars didn't design the car, they bought it. I for one bought mine because it says GTO others did too. These cars were marketed for the 40+ crowd now that they are affordable for the younger drivers, they are the key to preserving the heritage of the GTO despite what older gen guys think. When they show up at shows many are scorned. The resentment grows.

Instead of spitting on them why not go up and get an education on them? Talk to them, learn about the car, DRIVE ONE. Many of these guys put a lot of time, money, and effort in the car just like the older gen owners did back when. To go to shows and have pin heads verbally assault them breeds animosity. While I think they new gen crowd is the key to bridging the gap (many older guys are set in their ways) how many times do they try before they say F-it?

There are new gen owners and clubs out there growing in numbers. Instead of embracing them they are treated like a bastard child. The Old gen crowd is to blame as the GTOAA membership continues to dwindle.
:hail: That is some quality, pro-active stuff right there.
 

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I'd rather be scuba diving.
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Just a bit of info her guys for the ones who dont want to join GTOAA. In addition I am told POCI will let anyone start a new group of just new era Goats in there area if there is interest.
Just wanted to let everyone know that if you are undecided about joining one of the two clubs just to be able to come to a national event we have some good news. POCI http://www.poci.org/ is dedicated to all models of Pontiac. They are having a trial membership for only 10 dollars. This is a 3 month membership and will include their award winning magazine. There have been a few threads on here about people not wanting to registar because they did not want to join GTOAA. Now you dont have to. In addition you can still register now and your trial membership will not start until you arive at the show in Dayton July 7th. There will be a POCI booth on site to give you your trial membership # when you arrive. GTOAA has decided not to offer the trial membership. If you are on the fence and dont want the extra expense of joining a formal club then try the trial membership to have full access to this historic event. If you are impressed then you can look into becoming a member later. If not then hope you liked the show. Any questions you can post them here, or send me a pm.
__________________
 

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Just a bit of info her guys for the ones who dont want to join GTOAA. In addition I am told POCI will let anyone start a new group of just new era Goats in there area if there is interest.
Just wanted to let everyone know that if you are undecided about joining one of the two clubs just to be able to come to a national event we have some good news. POCI http://www.poci.org/ is dedicated to all models of Pontiac. They are having a trial membership for only 10 dollars. This is a 3 month membership and will include their award winning magazine. There have been a few threads on here about people not wanting to registar because they did not want to join GTOAA. Now you dont have to. In addition you can still register now and your trial membership will not start until you arive at the show in Dayton July 7th. There will be a POCI booth on site to give you your trial membership # when you arrive. GTOAA has decided not to offer the trial membership. If you are on the fence and dont want the extra expense of joining a formal club then try the trial membership to have full access to this historic event. If you are impressed then you can look into becoming a member later. If not then hope you liked the show. Any questions you can post them here, or send me a pm.
__________________

The GTOAA voted not to have a trial membership???
with all the stuff about getting new membership and this is there reponds well I guess I can see the light at the end of the tunnel and dam if its not a train... I guess GTOAA doen't want new membership after all.. I'll be dam.....

I will be joining POCI as well as GTOAA and we will see which is better for my monies...


thanks Carl for the info...

Not good Bob A. not good at all......

Morty GTOAA#14688
 

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Can't help ya, Sorry.
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The GTOAA voted not to have a trial membership???
with all the stuff about getting new membership and this is there reponds well I guess I can see the light at the end of the tunnel and dam if its not a train... I guess GTOAA doen't want new membership after all.. I'll be dam.....

I will be joining POCI as well as GTOAA and we will see which is better for my monies...


thanks Carl for the info...

Not good Bob A. not good at all......

Morty GTOAA#14688
Honestly, in the GTOAA's defense, a trial membership doesn't serve the membership or club in anyway. It is only 35$ for a full membership. A large number of the people that would buy a 'trial' membership would simply do so to get into the National's and not participate further.
 

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I'd rather be scuba diving.
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I'd rather be scuba diving.
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Honestly, in the GTOAA's defense, a trial membership doesn't serve the membership or club in anyway. It is only 35$ for a full membership. A large number of the people that would buy a 'trial' membership would simply do so to get into the National's and not participate further.
They still stand to benefit from it even if the individual does not become a member.
 

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Wifes Car is Faster than Mine
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How do they stand to benefit. If anything the current members would get stuck in the end. i agree with PJ that most people would do the trial membership to just go to the Nationals, and then when the current members couldn't get a room at the host hotel, that would be something else for everyone to complain about. I think everyone is beating a dead horse. We can't do anything to change the minds of certain people who don't like our cars, the GTOAA is trying to do what they can to help that out. The GTOAA has to accomodate all the cars, and that is what they do, the have a show for all the cars, they have places for all the people to hang out, they have cruises for all the cars. They are doing their part, why punish the GTOAA because a few of the older crowd has a problem with the new generation GTO. That to me is crazy.

What i'm really afraid of is that all this talk on the board is going to hurt anyone new joining the GTOAA. People are going to read this, which is a few opinions out of a large crowd, and think, wow...i don't want to get involved in that, when in fact it might be something that some would really enjoy. I guess what my opinion comes down to is if you don't want to be in the GTOAA because of past experiences, then don't be in it, but I would say let's keep the bashing down to a minimum because it's hard telling how many of the new GTO owners have been scared off from joining because of some of the experiences other have had. Again, my opinion and personal experience has been very good when involved with the GTOAA. The only problem we have ever had was in 2005 when we attended our first GTO Nationals. And for everyone who was at the St. Louis Nationals, I'm sure you all know, if you think the older generation is bad now, they were 10 times worse then. In my opinion they have gotten much better as the years have gone on. The last few years at the Nationals we have had nothing but good experiences with the Older GTO owners. Again, this is my opinion, so take it for what it's worth.

Kim
 

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I'd rather be scuba diving.
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PM sent. Dont know if Kim or Keygan wrote that last comment.
 

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Omertà
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PM sent. Dont know if Kim or Keygan wrote that last comment.
Well, Kim's name ends the post. And a big +1 to that post.

On a side note...who really cares about all this bullshit?

Nobody's feelings are gonna be changed.

Shouldn't we all just go to the Co-Vention, enjoy ourselves, talk Pontiacs/GTO's, hang out, meet new friends, and show off our cars?
:dunno:

Todd, member #15104
 
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