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GR-RRR!
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Rich and NotHJF, you're never allowed to rage-quit this board.
I find it utterly insulting and unacceptable that I was mentioned in the same sentence as Hubert. That's it! I'm leaving!

Wait, where else would I go? (slinks back in with his tail between his legs)

On a more serious note, when replacing the rear sway bar the factory links are more than up to the task of being reused (unlike the fronts) but it is a really good idea to replace the link bushings. They are a lot easier to install if you get the two-piece split bushings. (I'm not even sure anyone sells the one piece ones anymore.)

As far as the rear subframe bushings, I'd strongly suggest you go with poly and not solid bushings.
 

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With alum/poly rear subframe bushings there really isn't any alignment work that can be done. Just pop em in. And like i said - if you decide to go poly, i got a set of brand new pedders poly subframe bushings that i need to sell haha. Will sell them very cheap! Just pm me.
 

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Discussion Starter #23
*update
managed to jack my gto up and get her onto some blocks and and retorque the radius rod bushings on the front of the car. I tightened them to like 110lbs. I managed to get a little bit on them before they were tight but I wasn't a whole lot, maybe a 1/4 turn at most, but it seems to have made a little difference as far as the floating steering wheel on breaking. so thats a plus, but the front end still doesn't seem to keep up with the turning back and forth and the I still have some shuttering from the brakes. SOOOOOO.....

tomorrow, ill be changing out the rotors, Andy is the man and got me a complete set of DBA 4000 rotors...cheapest I could fine anywhere, and personally called me to make sure I didn't make any mistakes, and got them to me in 3 days. But those will be goin on tomorrow with some hawk pads. hopefully this will take care of the shuttering.

next month will be the rear end. complete upgrade. sway bar, bushings, and adjustable bushings for the alignment, but I have a question...

wretched has....
these heavy duty diff bushing, would this perform about as well as the harrop?? obviously its not the same, and obviously its not gonna hold more fluid for me, but I don't race this car, im just looking to get more substantial support in the back... more than the stock diff bushing would. obviously anything would be better than the stock but would I the worth the money?? were talking 400$ difference
 

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Discussion Starter #25
It's not going to fix your floaty problem.

How do your front end links look? Front sway bushings?
I’ll check tomorrow when I get under the car but they should all be new from when the coil overs and sway bar were installed which was done in the summer. Pedders coilovers and whiteline sway bar, all of which come with that hardware.
What kind of damage should I look for in the end links??
 

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Discussion Starter #27
Bent or with poly bushings that squish out.
So I checked the front end components today while I was doing my rotor swap (ps love the new rotors (had them on the last gto, loved them them also) the brakes feel like a new car, I went way over with the anti squeak stuff but it was worth it) and it looked like everything was good. I have some pics, but everything was straight, the only thing I noticed was that on the drivers side I move the end link by hand where’s as on the pass. Side I couldn’t. I don’t know if this means that the links are bad or not, I also had the wheels turned towards the opposite side so that it was easier for me to get to them. As far as the bushings are concerned, they looked fine nothing was squished out or loose as far as the hold downs go.
One thing I tried looking up but couldn’t find is if the orientation of the bashing’s mattered. I know in stock bushings they say to have the cut facing a certain way. On my whiteline bushing for the sway bar, I couldn’t find anything saying if the bushing needed for face the rear or the front if that matters. But mine are facing the front, in the like 5 o’clock position ( looking at them from the pass. Side) but facing the front.

maybe it’s just me
 

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Discussion Starter #28
I just ordered a few components for the ol" girl. I got the sway bar (and longer bolts) link bushings, camber adjustments and inner bushings. along with the g-force diff mount. I didn't do the subframe stuff, ill do that next month.

my question is, when would I need to use the cradle alignment tool. I see everyone talking about it but when I posted earlier, someone told me it wasn't necessary. it seems like its been a pretty hot topic around here as of lately. reason im asking is not because im gonna get my hands on one but I want to at least make sure I take good measurements before getting into something and then finding out I screwed things up. and where should I take these measurements and witness marks??

also maybe some here can help. I wanting to get the Spohn toe rods for the rear. first has anyone installed these and second, do they use bushings since they're on a heim joint?? I keep looking for pics but people only seen to post pics of the ball join area. if im replacing the links I might as well replace the bushings too since im already there and would rater just get the alignment done once.
 

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don't buy spohn anything. their stuff is garbage. there was a thread of someone running the spohn front control arms and one broke while he was driving. nope.

i run the gforce1320 toe links and stock control arm bushings in back. that also has a heim joint. i wouldn't recommend that for a daily, as it's constantly exposed to the elements.

if you do all 4 poly RCA bushings, i don't know if i'd even run a toe link. i know for sure i wouldn't do it with eccentrics.

here is my understanding re: the rear suspension semi trailing arms and bushings, you should probably consider it for a bit before throwing a bunch of parts back there.

you have to understand why you would want poly bushings with a semi-trailing arm suspension, or a toe control link with one. A semi trailing arm is designed to pivot around an axis that is at an angle to the longitudinal axis of the car. so, when the control arm articulates, the wheel passes along an arc. this introduces a camber change, which is desired to maintain contact patch while cornering, and also a toe change which is undesirable but a consequence of both the motion of the arm and bushing flex.

you can control a few things with the design of the trailing arm suspension. the orientation of the axis that the arm swings around will determine how much of a camber change that happens when the arm moves up or down. it also sets the height where you have zero camber, and the component of this angle that does this is what you change when you do poly eccentrics or do the gforce weld-in camber boxes. the other component of this angle is the swing angle, which sets the severity of the dynamic camber. in the GTO i think it's like 10 or 11 degrees or so. (some cars have a much higher number, which can be bad. more on that later.)

now dynamic camber is useful when you're trying to go around a corner, but undesired for straight line acceleration for obvious reasons. also, the camber and toe changes can cause a loss of traction if the rear suspension experiences a dramatic change in loading, which can cause a loss of control. "lift-off" or "snap oversteer" is a known phenomenon with semi-traling arm setups (although not solely limited to cars with semi-trailing arm independant rear suspensions). it shouldn't be so dramatic in a GTO, from the lower relative sweep angle as compared to other cars that are rather notorious for exhibiting this handling trait, but can definitely still happen, and with springs and dampers weakened from wear i think it can be an increased issue when you have a drastic change in camber or toe because the suspension is simply now too compliant.

now, onto the bushings and the toe control arm.

from my understanding, a toe control rod should help to maintain proper toe geometry throughout the arc of the arm movement, but will cause the bushings to flex as the control arm is being forced to deviate slightly from its natural arc to maintain toe. this causes the bushings to flex. put in poly bushings, they don't want to flex, so you can get some suspension bind. you'll put more stress on the mounting points for the control arm as the poly bushings push against them.

another way to limit unwanted toe change is by using poly bushings, incidentally, as a measure of toe change results from bushing flex. (the porsche weissach axle is a design that cleverly counteracted this, actually using bushing flex to produce a desirable toe-in effect on deceleration, but i digress...)

anyway, from what i remember, the inner rear bushing on the control arm has voids so it flexes by design. i think the common consensus has been to just do the outer bushing and keep the inner stock if you keep the toe link, or just ditch the toe link entirely and do all 4 bushings.
 

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some other thoughts:

i have considered a few things in order to accomplish replacing all 4 control arm bushings as well as keeping the toe link, such as varying durometer rubber or poly bushings to use in the inner spot, as well as reinforcing the mounting tabs with gusseting. these things have been talked about years ago, but i don't know if they've ever been attempted.

all the same, you do want to control excessive travel in the rear, for drag racing or just for safety's sake. if your sagging in the back and have blown shocks, you need to fix that, lol. upgrading the rear springs is usually a good idea. i know you said you have coilovers, so i assume you at least have pedders springs/shocks in the back... also, the rear sway helps. it forces both control arms to act less independently of each other. yeah, i know the old rule of thumb is a stiffer rear sway promotes oversteer, but honestly, i think the benefit of added stability and control outweighs that considering the traits of the rear suspension design.
 

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i mean, think about this. especially with a stiffer front sway and a stock rear sway. you're in a turn, experiencing understeer, tires at the limit of traction, and you reduce throttle because you know you need to so you won't go off the road... that outside rear unloads...

...now you're not understeering anymore, LOL, kthxbai. better hope there isn't a wall there, or worse a ditch or a dropoff.

with stock sways and suspension, that is maintained and with good tires, i don't think the effect is so bad with smooth throttle inputs. granted with the stock suspension your transitions are gush, but you should still be able to safely traverse an on ramp onto the highway pushing the car somewhat.

unbalanced, or worn to smurf? nope.
 

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Discussion Starter #32
nah man don't worry, im not gonna get them. im more worried about tire life right now and more drag racing. on the last gto I just has eccentrics installed and the tire lasted forever, im just gonna go with that for now. Andy just sent them today for me.

I do want to stiffen it up a bit though, so right now im doing stuff the eccentrics and the sway bar, and upgrading the diff mount. leaving the stock toe rods in place. I might clean them up and throw a coat of paint on them but thats it. I am upgrading the inside bushings on the control arms but they're just replacement bushings not eccentrics
 

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GR-RRR!
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I've had both GForce and Spohn rear toe links. I like the Spohns more. Haven't had a lick of trouble with either. Spohns fit better, can be adjusted on the car without taking either end loose from the car. They both come with a bushing that fits inside the heim joint end so the bolt fits snug and to provide room away from the subframe for the joint to properly articulate.
499975
 

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nah man don't worry, im not gonna get them. im more worried about tire life right now and more drag racing. on the last gto I just has eccentrics installed and the tire lasted forever, im just gonna go with that for now. Andy just sent them today for me.

I do want to stiffen it up a bit though, so right now im doing stuff the eccentrics and the sway bar, and upgrading the diff mount. leaving the stock toe rods in place. I might clean them up and throw a coat of paint on them but thats it. I am upgrading the inside bushings on the control arms but they're just replacement bushings not eccentrics
i would leave the inner bushing stock.

if you feel brave, and decide to do it, report back and let me know how it worked out for you long term.
 

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Discussion Starter #35
I went to the shop today to have them install the eccentric bushings... needles to say they didn't want to start it because they didn't know if they would have done today since they close early.

so here's what they told me. apparently they don't have a handheld press soooo.... they were talking about removing the control arms and having to use a hydraulic press. this to me doesn't make sense.

do the arms simply swing down when the bolts are removed. when I had this done on the last gto I don't feel like they went though all this or else the guy would have told me about it.
 

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Discussion Starter #37

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Discussion Starter #39
cuz im having the show do it... means more money and time lol

also im doing the rear sway bar at this exact moment. the pedders has what looks like a small gusset welded to each end. does this go up or down or doesn't matter?? I placed it next to the stock sway bar and with the gusset down the holes obviously don't match up because it sits on the gusset. if the gusset faces up the end sits on the ground better but and the holes don't match up perfectly but its better. does this matter??
 

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Discussion Starter #40
sorry, having the shop do it. plus I didn't get replacement tty bolts for the axel
 
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