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Incognito
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Thanks again to Jeremy for working his magic. I was pretty sure I was going to get into the 380s, having done 360 pre-LTs, but it was not to be. She would take all the timing we threw at her, but she needs to pump some more air. Cam going in next baby!

I originally thought 400 whp might be possible with the just bolt ons, but now I seriously doubt it. I ended up picking up a ton of torque, and about 18 hp. It only did 367 on the first pull which was a surprise to me. I figured the ECU would adapt better to the headers on its own. Just another prime example that for every mod you must tune.

 

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outlawpontiacdragseries.c om
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Can we see the bin file?
 

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Incognito
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Discussion Starter #5
PurplePiss said:
Can we see the bin file?
Sure thing, if I only knew what that was.
 

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Administrator
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Nice runs!
I do really wish people would would do dyno runs from the lower rpms so we can see the whole picture.
 

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Incognito
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Discussion Starter #7
Swampgoat said:
Ported intake and tuning in the headers? 378-367= 11hp
Hmm...

The progression actually went like this.
First tune with catback and intake: 350 hp
port intake: 359.99 hp
Headers and Catless mids: 378

The 367 was the first pull on the headers before tuning, so I guess your right, 11 hp from tuning in the headers. From what I've seen these numbers are right at the median of what most people are seeing.
 

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Exhausted Tuner
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Steel Chicken said:
Nice runs!
I do really wish people would would do dyno runs from the lower rpms so we can see the whole picture.
What difference does it make to see what happens in 4th gear @ 2000 rpm at WOT ... you will never drive the car under those conditions nor will such loads be normally achieved. It would be the equivilant of asking what your car would make if it could spin past 7000 rpm.
 

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What difference does it make? because sometimes I *do* go into WOT @ 2k. Dont tell me how to drive my car please. Also, because it tells me how well the mods effect how the engine runs at those RPMS, and not necessarily at WOT. Also, because its indictative of how "streetable" the car might be. Theres *plenty* of reasons to show all the data, and only a few to hide it.

With slushboxes I can see why you want to skip those numbers, because they can do wacky and misleading things at low rpms, but I dont like "experts" deciding for me which set of data I need to see, I like to see all of it and make up my own mind, thank you.

Oh and by the way, my car does spin all the way to 7k (as do many other peoples) so again, dont set up arbitrary boundaries for people.

Edit:
in case words fail, pictures work wonders
 

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Incognito
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Discussion Starter #10
Thanks all, the more I read other results, 378 seems pretty darn good. It sure feels a hell of a lot faster after gaining 24 ft/lbs, and the exhaust note is smoother under hard throttle for some reason. I'd like to see the C5 again I ran the other day.
 

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Back on topic, glad your happy with it! Go find that C5 :gears:
 

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Objects in mirror dont matter
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John Doe said:
The progression actually went like this.
First tune with catback and intake: 350 hp
port intake: 359.99 hp
Headers and Catless mids: 378

The 367 was the first pull on the headers before tuning, so I guess your right, 11 hp from tuning in the headers. From what I've seen these numbers are right at the median of what most people are seeing.
Not a bad set when looked at from what was probably a 330 stock car instead of only an 11hp increase.
Enjoy!
 

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:mrrg:
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Steel Chicken said:
What difference does it make? because sometimes I *do* go into WOT @ 2k. Dont tell me how to drive my car please. Also, because it tells me how well the mods effect how the engine runs at those RPMS, and not necessarily at WOT. Also, because its indictative of how "streetable" the car might be. Theres *plenty* of reasons to show all the data, and only a few to hide it.

With slushboxes I can see why you want to skip those numbers, because they can do wacky and misleading things at low rpms, but I dont like "experts" deciding for me which set of data I need to see, I like to see all of it and make up my own mind, thank you.

Oh and by the way, my car does spin all the way to 7k (as do many other peoples) so again, dont set up arbitrary boundaries for people.

Edit:
in case words fail, pictures work wonders
You are kind of twisting what he said. WOT in 4th gear @ 2k. Why would you do that on the street? Why would you care about the numbers? Anyway nice numbers for the original poster..
 

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abepro said:
You are kind of twisting what he said. WOT in 4th gear @ 2k. Why would you do that on the street? Why would you care about the numbers? Anyway nice numbers for the original poster..
I didnot twist anything around. Why would I do that on the street? I dont know, to pass some one maybe? Or to run after someone who jumped the gun? Who cares? Why do I care? I cant beleive your asking that! Peoples engine spend 99% of their time in NON-WOT mode cruising, and its good to see how efficient the engine is at those RPMS's, and not everyone likes to downshift and crank up their motor to uber rpms when scooting around on the street.

The real question is, WHY are people not showing those numbers? If it really doesn't matter as people claim, why hide them? Whats the big deal?

Show us all the facts and let us come to our own conclusions. Is that really that hard of a concept to grasp?
 

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:mrrg:
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I guess you are right.. I thought Richard was right about never seeing those conditions on the street. I always downshift to third or probably even second. My car doesn't pull very hard in 4th @ 2K. Guess I need a maggie..
 

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Its not just about a maggie. Stop thinking in WOT only terms.

Do you or do you not a think a car that makes MORE power at WOT 2K rpm will be more responsive at lower throttle positions at the same RPM as another car that makes less power?

Which is more fun to drive...a car with a nice flat torque curve of lets say 300 ftlbs from 2K to 6K then a 400ftlb @ 6K car that only makes 200ftlbs @ 2krpm? The 300ftlbs car will make a much better daily driver, be more responsive etc etc.

The point is you can deduce the "driveability" of a car by seeing how efficient it is at lower RPMS ranges...even if you never go WOT @2K or less. Does that make sense?

And last but not least, lets say im completely full of crap. EVEN then, why hide the numbers? If they really dont matter? Just show em for the hell of it. The fact that people are getting defensive over not showing all the facts makes me go hmmm....
 

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Exhausted Tuner
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Steel Chicken said:
I didnot twist anything around. Why would I do that on the street? I dont know, to pass some one maybe? Or to run after someone who jumped the gun? Who cares? Why do I care? I cant beleive your asking that!
Steel TWISTen (or chicken whatever ..), Are you trying to make the claim that you are attempting to "pass someone" or to "run after" but not going to go to WOT and that you would not down shift? Passing someone at part throttle in 4th gear @ 2000 rpm ... thats around 40-45 mph. Passing in itself is reference to applying more throttle hense such phrases as "downshifting into passing gear." 40 mph runs are suited to 2nd and thrid gear ratios not 4th ... I can see why your not happy with your car.

Peoples engine spend 99% of their time in NON-WOT mode cruising, and its good to see how efficient the engine is at those RPMS's, and not everyone likes to downshift and crank up their motor to uber rpms when scooting around on the street.
If you are scooting around on the street and you dont care about making peak power, why are you worried about how efficient your motor is or what power it makes? Honestly what you are trying to say is quite contradictory.

Anyhow, A dyno pass is conducted at WOT ... showing a HP curve at 2000 rpm at WOT in 4th gear only shows what happens at WOT. You next statement is assinine in that you are trying to draw lines to part throttle performance based upon number achieved at WOT in 4th gear? How does knowing what happens at WOT indicate anything as to what happens at part throttle? You claim to be a "tuner," so tell me HOW cruise and WOT timing and fueling values are the same in OL and CL at different throttle angles. They are NOT, and in that case even a person with basic understanding which i feel you entirely lack, would be able to conclude that different timing advance and different fueling will net different power. So agian, why show WOT data for rpm values not attributed to WOT performance? Why make assumptions as to what part throttle power based up on WOT power when they share NO common ground ... you are the one misleading people in YOUR assumptions, charts are charts.

The real question is, WHY are people not showing those numbers? If it really doesn't matter as people claim, why hide them? Whats the big deal?
No one is hiding anything you delusional paranoid ... showing irrelivant info does nothing to serve anyone, only fuel internet know-it-all terrorists like yourself.

Show us all the facts and let us come to our own conclusions. Is that really that hard of a concept to grasp?
You're diluted and confused ... I posted a chart with NO assumptions and NO conclusions drawn on my part. No one made ANY conclusions except yourself. Get a life, you're the one that feels someone is out there to descieve you ... that you are one some cruisade to enlighten those to the worlds evil's, LOL ... sadly you humor me.
 

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Btlfed1500 said:
Steel TWISTen (or chicken whatever ..),
So now you make childish personal attacks....um ok.

Are you trying to make the claim that you are attempting to "pass someone" or to "run after" but not going to go to WOT and that you would not down shift? Passing someone at part throttle in 4th gear @ 2000 rpm ... thats around 40-45 mph. Passing in itself is reference to applying more throttle hense such phrases as "downshifting into passing gear." 40 mph runs are suited to 2nd and thrid gear ratios not 4th ... I can see why your not happy with your car.
First of all, when did I say im not happy with my car? WTF dude? I love the way my car runs. Second, what kinda bullshit are you talking about? Everytime you pass someone or need to accelerate, you HAVE to go WOT or downshift? Seriously, do you drive WOT all the time?


If you are scooting around on the street and you dont care about making peak power, why are you worried about how efficient your motor is or what power it makes? Honestly what you are trying to say is quite contradictory.
No it isn't. Ill try to keep it simple for you. Lets Car A makes twice as much power @ 2K RPM @ WOT then car B. Car A will be MORE responsive and more perky @ partial throttle then car B at part throttle, because of the efficency differences. If you can't get that, im done trying to explain it to you.

Anyhow, A dyno pass is conducted at WOT ... showing a HP curve at 2000 rpm at WOT in 4th gear only shows what happens at WOT. You next statement is assinine in that you are trying to draw lines to part throttle performance based upon number achieved at WOT in 4th gear? How does knowing what happens at WOT indicate anything as to what happens at part throttle? You claim to be a "tuner," so tell me HOW cruise and WOT timing and fueling values are the same in OL and CL at different throttle angles. They are NOT, and in that case even a person with basic understanding which i feel you entirely lack, would be able to conclude that different timing advance and different fueling will net different power. So agian, why show WOT data for rpm values not attributed to WOT performance? Why make assumptions as to what part throttle power based up on WOT power when they share NO common ground ... you are the one misleading people in YOUR assumptions, charts are charts.
More uncalled for personal insults. Thats very professional of you. Does it NOT occur to you that some other factors besides the timing and fueling are at play? I dont know, like maybe the exhaust, or CAM SPECIFICATIONS? jesus dude. This is really very basic stuff. A cam that makes big power at high rpms will make less power at low RPMS REGARDLESS OF HOW YOU TUNE IT, and it WILL SHOW UP IN THE WOT GRAPH, and INTELLIGENT person MIGHT be able to draw a conclusions that such a cam might be TOO MUCH CAM FOR THEIR NEEDS, but they would never know that if some ARROGANT person decides THEY DONT NEED TO SEE IT.


No one is hiding anything you delusional paranoid ... showing irrelivant info does nothing to serve anyone, only fuel internet know-it-all terrorists like yourself.
Then show it? If theres nothing to hide, show the data. Let people see it for themselves. And stop with the childish attacks, please.


You're diluted and confused ... I posted a chart with NO assumptions and NO conclusions drawn on my part. No one made ANY conclusions except yourself. Get a life, you're the one that feels someone is out there to descieve you ... that you are one some cruisade to enlighten those to the worlds evil's, LOL ... sadly you humor me.
Im confused? What chart are you talking about? Are you in the wrong thread? WTF?

You want to disagree and argue with me, fine, we all can learn something... but stop being a insulting prick about it.
 
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