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I was at my dealer the other day regarding my steering wheel shaking, and they said they would kindly replace the tires; however, they claim that it will be very hard to find the ones that are currently on it and may have to go with lesser quality tires. Is this BS or what should i do?
 

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BFG KDWS is a great tire but don't feed into the BS about lesser tire quality with other companies. I wouldn't go pep boys style tires but Dunlop, Falken, Yokohama, Kumho, Nitto etc all make some good tire IMO. Goodyear is great but way overpriced and Michelin is a fabulous tire but not worth the money unless you road race.

As for the shaking steering wheel i would think that would be a not so perfect balancing done on the wheel and tire. Not the tire itself, but i could be wrong.

the size is very common and there should be no problem finding them. maybe a shortage of KDWS in the area temporarily, i don't know.

i had KDWS then switched to Falken Ziex- 512. No difference i can tell.
 

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Maybe, maybe not

pontiac04GTO said:
I was at my dealer the other day regarding my steering wheel shaking, and they said they would kindly replace the tires; however, they claim that it will be very hard to find the ones that are currently on it and may have to go with lesser quality tires. Is this BS or what should i do?
To start, you should have your tires checked on a hunter 9700 series wheel balancer that measures roadforce. Roadforce you your tires should not exceed 15-18 pounds. Not knowing the quality of the dealership you are dealig with, this is the first response I have to you.

Secondly, installing a lessor quality tire is totally unaceptable. I work in a Pontiac/GMC dealership, and unles it was a total emergency, I would never do this. If they cannot get the tire, and it may be true it may have some difficulties becasue of GM's TPC rating, the dealerhsip has avenues to go. To start, they have an 800 number to BFG to call. If that does not work, they need to call Art Spong, Brand Quality Manager for GM and the GTO. He can get one. The dealership should know how to get the phone number. I have it, but cannot give it out.If by chance there is some wierd possibliity they cannot get, the KDW series is available. This is the next step up. You should not be ewxpected to go down, but Pontiac would be expected to go up. Now if it is a minor vibration, and it may take them a month to get, then that could be the case, and i think you should live with it for that time, unless you are going on a long trip, or it is creating a safety issue.

The Falken 512 is a OK tire, but does not come close to the KDWs in the rain.
In my humble opinion of coarse.
If you need any more info, email me in private.
best of luck
 

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pontiac04GTO said:
I was at my dealer the other day regarding my steering wheel shaking, and they said they would kindly replace the tires; however, they claim that it will be very hard to find the ones that are currently on it and may have to go with lesser quality tires. Is this BS or what should i do?
Dealers suck. There is no way BFG KDWS are hard to find. Tell them you want what came on the car.
 

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Not all dealers...

[QUOTE='91 Formula]Dealers suck. There is no way BFG KDWS are hard to find. Tell them you want what came on the car.[/QUOTE]

That's a little harsh. One of the tires on my GTO had a slight nick in the sidewall, probably from unloading off the truck. Nothing that would be unsafe, but I wanted it replaced anyway. They had to have BFG FedEx a new tire because no one in our area had one. It took a couple days to get it, but they fixed it up with a minimum of hassle.

If they had offered to replace the tires I would have taken an upgrade but no way would I accept a downgrade.

Diggs
 

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Alittle harsh??

[QUOTE='91 Formula]Dealers suck. There is no way BFG KDWS are hard to find. Tell them you want what came on the car.[/QUOTE]

To start, you do not know all the info concerning the tire. Saying all dealers suck, is as bad as saying all cutomers are dishonest. As a word of advise, if you emulate those feelings to the dealer(s) you may someday have to deal with, then I guarentee you they will live up to your expectations. 90% of the dealers out there are first class and work very hard, and strive for extremely high customer satisfaction. Give them a break. If they fail you at some point, talk to them rationally. Dealing with a upset customer with a legitimate concern will almost always work to your advantage, if the dealer thinks you can be satisfied.

many problems with our vehicles are extremely complex, and/or intermittant. they may have upwards of 25-30 computers all networked together. Stuff happens sometimes. When it does, you can judge the dealership in the efforts they make. Being an electrical engineer you should have an understanding of this. So many customers come in with an intermittant problem, and want it fixed right now, even though there are no symptoms currently. Why do they expect this from their car/truck, and the other major items in their life they do not? Sorry to be preachy. Just trying to assist in understanding how to better your relationship with a dealer(s)
:bubbrub
 

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I don't disagree with most of what you are saying dms - but this case is different. They have said the tires are bad - and were bad when they sold the car. The car was sold with a certain specification. Now, they want to give a lesser specification part - one that will affect much of the driving characterstics. What possible reason is there for this other than the dealer trying to save money? Even if an exact replacement isn't available they certainly can find a comparable or better tire to offer.
It comes down to why people buy foreign over american and why people are so ready to lease cars and pay huge overmileage penalties - they don't trust the dealerships and the average backyard mechanic can't keep up with all the computer stuff necessary to maintain newer cars like they used to. Just look at the experience another owner had on this site when bringing his car in for transmission issues.
I agree - not all dealers suck - but many of them don't really try to keep a customer happy once the sale is complete, especially in big metropolises where dealer's are a dime a dozen and they don't seem to care about maintaining loyalty.
Dan
 

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Sorry if I insulted anyone. I did not mean all dealers suck. Just that all of my experiences with service did.

Back in 1988 when I bought my first Formula it would have a problem starting. It would crank for about 20 seconds, like it was flooded, before it started and when it did it blew a lot of smoke. I did some investigating and found out the fuel injectors were a new design and some cars were having problems with the injectors staying closed when not energized. With the fuel system pressurized, the fuel would leak in to the cylinders after the car was shut after running for a while. I brought it in to service and described the problem. The service guy says "Are you sure your not stepping on the gas while tring to start it. This is a fuel injected car you know."

Gee, lets see. I factory ordered it with the 5.7 liter TPI, hard top and no power options to keep the car light. And I've only researched the car for about a year before I bought it. I'm pretty sure I know it is fuel injected.

So I dropped it off around 7:00 in the morning. I said to the service guy "I heard that these new fuel injectors have problems with leaking fuel in the cylinders." He says "No I haven't heard a thing about that." So I left. Around 11:00 I call and the service guy says they have not looked at it yet. He said they were going to look at it in a little while. OK I said. I still have'nt heard anything, so I called again around 3:00 and he says "We just looked at it and every thing is ok, it started right up". I said to my self of cource it did it's 8 hours later, the car is ice cold and all the fuel has evaporated from the cylinders. I pick up my car and leave.

Th next day the it did it again. I still had the same problem. Three weeks go by and I read that there was a TSB on leaking fuel injectors. Called up my service guy to tell him the problem again he says "Yeah bring it in. the injectors need to be replaced."

Now this is only part of the reason why I say dealers suck. These guys treat you like you are a total dope, when really they are. Maybe some of these guys should do a little research on the cars they are servicing. Who in there right mind would say "these tires are hard to find". Please tell me it was a salesmen and not a service tech. That I would understand. Good luck with getting your new BFG's.

BTW Tire Rack has them. Cheep. Here is a link.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires...false&partnum=445WR7GFTAKDWS&fromCompare1=yes
 

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Don't know if you have NTB's in your area but they stock the tire around me.
 

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pontiac04GTO, Tell 'em you want all 4 replaced with Michelin Pilot Sports - that will get'em hustling for some KDWS's pretty quick. Seriously, the BFG KDWS ain't the greatest tire around - too hard for summer, and not nearly as good as a Blizzak in snow. I'm waiting to see what Tire Rack recommends - they are supposed to get their test Goat in June and publish summer and snow tire recommendations shortly afterward........my guess is KDWS's WON'T be on the list !!
 

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1988 and your still pissed??

[QUOTE='91 Formula]Sorry if I insulted anyone. I did not mean all dealers suck. Just that all of my experiences with service did.

Back in 1988 when I bought my first Formula it would have a problem starting. It would crank for about 20 seconds, like it was flooded, before it started and when it did it blew a lot of smoke. I did some investigating and found out the fuel injectors were a new design and some cars were having problems with the injectors staying closed when not energized. With the fuel system pressurized, the fuel would leak in to the cylinders after the car was shut after running for a while. I brought it in to service and described the problem. The service guy says "Are you sure your not stepping on the gas while tring to start it. This is a fuel injected car you know."

I have been working in GM stores since 1973, and granted, GM has done some very stupid things thru history. But I must be honest, its not the same GM as it was in 1988. Technology advancements are incredible with them. Also they are much more responsive then ever. Case in point, I found a concern with a GTO that we were inspecting. I called Art Spong, brand quality manager for GTO. The next day, he checked out over 100 vehicles at the doc, had a conference call with Holden, and in 3 days total, the probelm was fixed. Taht is world class. i cannot tell you how many times I have had a foreman on an assembly plant call me up about a problem so they can do a better job. this kind of stuff was not present in 1988. they have a long way to go on some things, but they are in the right direction. the press are very biased against the domestics. Case in point, any little problem/recall/ goodwill policy GM will do makes the national headlines, even if it is to insert a paragraph in the onwers manual. But do they talk about the extreme increases in warranty expenses in honda and Acura? No. A same sized Honda/Acura service department as mine in our area will spend almost double the amount of warranty money as we do.

No one should view any dealership or business in todays standards based on something that happened in 16 years ago. I know nightmare stories on Hondas, Acuras, and a lot with Mercedes and BMW, but stuff happens and poeple are human. The vehicles are extremely complicated and poeple's expectations are even more complicating and expecting. Caser in point, a customer came in with a 2500 HD Duramax that has been highly modified, including a 10" lift. He has been kicked out of 2 other dealerships already. There was a potential he had a internal engine problem. I checked with our techs. We did not have an engine boom tall enough to be able to take the engine out. So i called another dealership that also services meduim and heavy duty big trucks for the customer. I even called Roadside service for him because he was so impatient, he did not want to wait 30 seconds for help.We did not even sell the truck!. He tells his friends on his cell phone, and Roadside we are being uncooperative treating him terribly. boy, I wondered what would ever make him completley satisfied. So my advise to you is be patient, and do not judge anyone/anything because something happened 16 years ago
 

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dms said:
[QUOTE='91 Formula]Sorry if I insulted anyone. I did not mean all dealers suck. Just that all of my experiences with service did.

Back in 1988 when I bought my first Formula it would have a problem starting. It would crank for about 20 seconds, like it was flooded, before it started and when it did it blew a lot of smoke. I did some investigating and found out the fuel injectors were a new design and some cars were having problems with the injectors staying closed when not energized. With the fuel system pressurized, the fuel would leak in to the cylinders after the car was shut after running for a while. I brought it in to service and described the problem. The service guy says "Are you sure your not stepping on the gas while tring to start it. This is a fuel injected car you know."

I have been working in GM stores since 1973, and granted, GM has done some very stupid things thru history. But I must be honest, its not the same GM as it was in 1988. Technology advancements are incredible with them. Also they are much more responsive then ever. Case in point, I found a concern with a GTO that we were inspecting. I called Art Spong, brand quality manager for GTO. The next day, he checked out over 100 vehicles at the doc, had a conference call with Holden, and in 3 days total, the probelm was fixed. Taht is world class. i cannot tell you how many times I have had a foreman on an assembly plant call me up about a problem so they can do a better job. this kind of stuff was not present in 1988. they have a long way to go on some things, but they are in the right direction. the press are very biased against the domestics. Case in point, any little problem/recall/ goodwill policy GM will do makes the national headlines, even if it is to insert a paragraph in the onwers manual. But do they talk about the extreme increases in warranty expenses in honda and Acura? No. A same sized Honda/Acura service department as mine in our area will spend almost double the amount of warranty money as we do.

No one should view any dealership or business in todays standards based on something that happened in 16 years ago. I know nightmare stories on Hondas, Acuras, and a lot with Mercedes and BMW, but stuff happens and poeple are human. The vehicles are extremely complicated and poeple's expectations are even more complicating and expecting. Caser in point, a customer came in with a 2500 HD Duramax that has been highly modified, including a 10" lift. He has been kicked out of 2 other dealerships already. There was a potential he had a internal engine problem. I checked with our techs. We did not have an engine boom tall enough to be able to take the engine out. So i called another dealership that also services meduim and heavy duty big trucks for the customer. I even called Roadside service for him because he was so impatient, he did not want to wait 30 seconds for help.We did not even sell the truck!. He tells his friends on his cell phone, and Roadside we are being uncooperative treating him terribly. boy, I wondered what would ever make him completley satisfied. So my advise to you is be patient, and do not judge anyone/anything because something happened 16 years ago
Ok lets jump to the present. I bought a 2002 Pontiac Montana AWD. Last year the DIC said "AWD disable/ABS". Some times it would reset if I shut off the engine and started it again. I dropped it off at the dealer. I suggested to him it was probobly just a wheel sensor. I had the same problem in my 1994 Grand Prix when I go through puddles. He calls me later in the day and tells me it was the wire harness to the wheel sensor. I said OK and picked up the van. The next day the light came on again. I called my serviceman at the dealer and he said "Oh the tech said he forgot to reset the computer. I droped it off again. Later that day I picked it up after service hours. I got two blocks and the light came on again. I turned around and droped the key in the overnight box. The next day I asked for the service manager and told him the entire story, including my suggestion of the wheel sensor. I said to him it was not easy for me to get here. (dealer is 16miles away) and this is my third time here. He said he was very sorry and would personally look at the van. He said he was having some complaints with that particular serviceman. He called me later in the day at work. He told me he found the problem to be the connector (corroded) to the wire harness that goes to the wheel sensor. He also said he changed the wheel sensor. So he also asked me if I want to pick it up or he will deliver it. So he delivered it to my home. Now that was not expected and I was very happy with that. .
 

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You got Me!!

[QUOTE='91 Formula]Ok lets jump to the present. I bought a 2002 Pontiac Montana AWD. Last year the DIC said "AWD disable/ABS". Some times it would reset if I shut off the engine and started it again. I dropped it off at the dealer. I suggested to him it was probobly just a wheel sensor. I had the same problem in my 1994 Grand Prix when I go through puddles. He calls me later in the day and tells me it was the wire harness to the wheel sensor. I said OK and picked up the van. The next day the light came on again. I called my serviceman at the dealer and he said "Oh the tech said he forgot to reset the computer. I droped it off again. Later that day I picked it up after service hours. I got two blocks and the light came on again. I turned around and droped the key in the overnight box. The next day I asked for the service manager and told him the entire story, including my suggestion of the wheel sensor. I said to him it was not easy for me to get here. (dealer is 16miles away) and this is my third time here. He said he was very sorry and would personally look at the van. He said he was having some complaints with that particular serviceman. He called me later in the day at work. He told me he found the problem to be the connector (corroded) to the wire harness that goes to the wheel sensor. He also said he changed the wheel sensor. So he also asked me if I want to pick it up or he will deliver it. So he delivered it to my home. Now that was not expected and I was very happy with that. .[/QUOTE]

Well, if all you said was 100%, then you are having a tough time and have a legitimate concern. Even in Ca. corrosion on the connectors I think they would have is fairly common. Being in the area you are in should be really common. speed snesor concerns are pretty easy to find and diagnos. I would recommend talking to friends on their experiences in other dealerships. GM now gives permission for their dealers to do cross line warranty. Ask the dealerships what their CSI standings are in relationship to "Top box" and "fixed right the first time" If they are not bragging about it, then move on to the next dealer.

Having these concerns like this, I am thankful you have stuck with Pontiac. A good talk with the Service Manager or GM, would probably help as long as you approach them in a way that promotes positive interaction. Saying you guys suck and wahat are you going to do about it, is usually not good. Move to the S.F Bay area and i will take care of your auto needs personally.

best of luck,
dms
 

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Thanks dms. I didn't mean "every" dealer sucks, but there are some out there who you really just have to shake your head at.
 
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