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May I quote you on that?
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Since you will be handling both Magnusson and Vortech, I suspect you can give an objective opinion on the differences. Am I correct that the Vortech is a centrifugal blower, and as such should have much lower drag on the motor at low RPM? I would like more power when I want it, but not throw economy completely out the window for normal driving. Also, how about durability differences?
 

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mistermike said:
Am I correct that the Vortech is a centrifugal blower, and as such should have much lower drag on the motor at low RPM?
It may have a lower drag at lower rpm, but from what I know of superchargers, you also experience a lag at lower rpm with centrifugal superchargers. With a Roots type or a twin screw type, you don't.
 

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Urban Redneck
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READYtoROCK said:
It may have a lower drag at lower rpm, but from what I know of superchargers, you also experience a lag at lower rpm with centrifugal superchargers. With a Roots type or a twin screw type, you don't.
This is true, but the Magnusson Roots blowers are actually made by Eaton, who worked out how to reduce the low RPM drag with a bypass valve.

With Eaton blowers you get the best of everything.
 

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May I quote you on that?
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My thinking was that the LS1 has plenty of grunt on the low end. I don't think the "lag" would be obnoxious like a little 4 banger with 8:1 stock compression. The powertrain warranty on the Magnacharger is pretty appealing. Time to visit LS1tech.com.
 

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TBYRNE Performance
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Discussion Starter #7
You guys summed it up pretty good. Both companys make a good system but the Magnuson will produce more power in the lower RPM range.

The LS1 f-body Vortech kit makes about 140-150 rear wheel horsepower. I expect the GTO kit to be in the same range.
 

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Captain Thread Killer returns
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The only thing I don't like about the V-tech is you can't keep the fuel rail covers on, and it does not look as neat and tidy
 

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mistermike said:
My thinking was that the LS1 has plenty of grunt on the low end.
My thinking is unless you are running at the strip, low - mid range is where I want as much power as I can get. I can always find ways to hook up. On the street, you're not gonna need the extra power at the top end.

Pull a good holeshot on someone and they will start sweating right away. It usually is the first 60 - 120 feet that will make or break you.
 

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TBYRNE Performance
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Discussion Starter #10
Good low end power is something that you'll feel everyday without having to get the RPMs up. Top end power is good for a street race. Cars may run the same ET at the track but the one with the higher MPH will get the advantage on the street because it will either walk away or pull on the other one.
 

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tbyrne said:
Good low end power is something that you'll feel everyday without having to get the RPMs up. Top end power is good for a street race.
When I think about "top end power" I think of g forces at 90+ mph. A lot of street races are over by then.

Not that I condone street racing, of course. :wall:
 

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magnesson VS Vortech

Several things to consider. To start, I would want to knwo what the warranty is on the Vortech version and do they have a supplemental powertrain warranty like Magna Charger does? Does anyone else thin the setup does not look clean?? having the unit inside the intake plenum is a real plus for me. Also, would want to know are there supplemental electronics on the Vortech like Whipple uses? If so, I would not use it in a million years!!. Does Vortech install larger injectors or are they using boost fuel injectors? Is it loud under boost?? Is the box connected to the output of the blower a intercooler?? Does it need an intercooler. Maybe Tom can answer these questions for everyone.

Centrifugal vs roots style becomes a personal choice. I personally would want the power to come on alittle later like a turbo charger. This is what a centrifugal design does. Since it is smaller it has to spin over 40,000 RPM compared to the 11,000-12,000 RPM of the Eaton. This will be easier on your power train, and unless you are doing something greater than 275/35R18 tires in the rear, it is pretty hard to put a massive increase in off idle. Keep in mind the Eaton unit on the Magna Charger is not going to go to 7Lbs boost by 1500-2000RPM. In fact, if the setup is done properly, it will increase in a linear line and the whine will tell you when boost is starting.

The Centrifugal design will get better fuel economy in general. But consider the relationship of boost to MPG to fuel pricing as a "user fee"

For those chevy SSR trucks, the magnacharger unit for the GTO will fit on the SSR truck. It badly needs hp since it is so heavy

dms
 

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That is just a sick looking engine bay. :D :D
 

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TBYRNE Performance
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Discussion Starter #15
I also have a supercharged Grand Prix. Fun cars to drive for a V6 but they require more fine tuning if you want to increase boost. If not, knock retard will taking you back a few steps.

Comparing superchargers for the LS1 motor a centrifugal will make more top end power. Some can provide you with 10, 12 or 15+ # of boost but you need to have the motor to handle that. The stock LS1 can take 8-9# without much, if any problem. Some people are running 10-11# but it's only matter of time before something happens. Then they rebuild, lower the compression and increase boost some more. The Vortech kits for the LS1 Camaro, Firebird and C5 add about 140-150hp to the rear wheels. The ATI P-1SC is good for about 130-140hp while their D-1SC will give those cars a 150+hp boost. Magnuson doesn't have a kit for the f-body but their non-intercooled kit for the C5 has been providing those cars with 100-110hp. This jumps up to 140+ for the new intercooled kit. The truck guys have been picking up 130+ horsepower from Magnuson's intercooled Radix kit. A roots blower will make more power in the lower RPM range than a centrifugal but if you going for the big numbers up top the centrifugal will be a better way to go.

Turbos can be a very nice, efficient form of forced induction but there aren't many options available. One company was working on a twin turbo kit for the f-body a few years ago but they ended up folding. There are barely a handful of companys producing systems for those cars.
 

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Urban Redneck
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Blitzu,

What you are suggesting runs counter to everything generally accepted about forced induction.

First, all turbos suffer from turbo lag, which is why multiple turbos are often (usually?) employed. And the plumbing required is nasty. The only advantage to a turbo over a supercharger is that the turbo boost is "free," since it comes from the exhaust and engine power is not required to turn the blower.

As for Roots vs centrifugal, there's no way to say that one generates "more power" than the other. It all depends on how much boost is being generated, and that depends on a number of factors including size of the blower, pulley dimensions, etc. Also, intercoolers increase power.

What you can say about Roots vs centrifugal is that a Roots blower generates more or better low-end torque compared to an equivalent centrifugal. Therefore a Roots is probably a better choice for the street while a BIG centrifugal would be a good option for the strip.

Centrifugals are popular primarily because of the flexibility of installation in a variety engine compartments, and the ease of installing an intercooler. However, aftermarket companies using Eatons (which come in several different sizes and which feature intakes at a 90 degree angle to the outflow) have been pretty creative in getting Roots blowers to fit in many different configurations.
 

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redneck said:
What you can say about Roots vs centrifugal is that a Roots blower generates more or better low-end torque compared to an equivalent centrifugal. Therefore a Roots is probably a better choice for the street while a BIG centrifugal would be a good option for the strip.
I agree with redneck.

When I want that extra power, I want it NOW. I think realistically, very seldom (I did NOT say never) will that top end power play much of a role "on the street". Low end and mid-range most definitely. Of course, when I think of "top end" power, I think of power in the 80 - 90 mph range and above.

At least that is my opinion. :)
 

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Effectiveness of a true intercooler

We are a test facility for dyno proven products; a big player in the sport utility and Hummer centrifugal design superchargers. Next month they are flying out to install a air to air intercooler in a Denali which will have about 450 hp and 515lbs of torque with just the supercharger. They finished testing today on an Escalade in florida and got 95 degree temp drop of inlet air. that is a ton of drop. The magnacharger unit, which I do like very much and have install many in our GMC trucks, uses a intercooler that is just a separate coolant system to the intake plenum. but gaurentee you it will not drop the temp 95 degrees. However, both Magacharger and Dyno proven products make tame units designed to have long life engines and drive trains. Beeing a dealer, this is why i strongly recommend them. Do not want a customer breathing down my neck due to an over boost problem and broken pistons. With a 95 degree temp drop, tuners can have a field day with advance curves. another interesting find was a dyno proven cool charger we installed in a 2004 2500 crew cab. The customer reported an 3MPG increase. He was driving it conservatively.
dms
 

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Blitzu said:
Look at lingenfelter's set up.... 0-60 in 1.9 seconds... yeah lag really sucks.
Are you serious???
 

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TBYRNE Performance
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Discussion Starter #20
That has to be a serious typo or I'll be sending one of my cars down to them :)
 
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