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Installed the Predator today in my m6 and will share some thoughts.Improvement in performance was dramatic.Prior to install ran live data and found the IAT to be around 120-130 degrees with outside temp at 86 degrees.Engine coolant temp at about 220 degree average,Under these conditions my GTO always seem to bog down and I think I know why.According to Helms IAT&ECT will retard timing lots.Cant find a curve table but have heard that ADVANCE CURVE starts to retard at 86 IAT degrees and that total timing could be reduced by as much as 10 degrees.( if someone finds curve table in the Helms ,please post )...My point is that one of the key things the TUNE does is turn the fans on early to keep ECT down and minimize retard....In my view if you mess with the fan on settings .you reduce the positive effect.....after Tune install ECT holds at 190 degrees and IAT is 104 degrees and still much to hot.The problem is however that the fans are not made for continous on cycle which is now the case. According to Helms,fans should turn off at select road speeds and I dont know if the Predator changes that parameter.Anybody know that fact and if not we should ask Diablo and post a thread,if not these fans will not handle the duty cycle as they are designed for about 30% to 40% on time.

Having said the above,today with air temp of 77 degrees and after about a 10 minute open road drive I returned to a spot where I like to "test" the car.From 20mph roll it hooks up good but burns rubber all the way thru 1st and well into 2nd gear and revs quick.Really good feel in all gears and seems to pull stronger to red line.Also find lots of benefits in being able to run live data but disappointed that we cant data log.

I am not a drag racer but like a clean, good running package, and the Predator helps accomplish that mission

Happy 4th to all
 

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Doc, Just Doc
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scheer said:
Installed the Predator today in my m6 and will share some thoughts.Improvement in performance was dramatic.Prior to install ran live data and found the IAT to be around 120-130 degrees with outside temp at 86 degrees.Engine coolant temp at about 220 degree average,Under these conditions my GTO always seem to bog down and I think I know why.According to Helms IAT&ECT will retard timing lots.Cant find a curve table but have heard that ADVANCE CURVE starts to retard at 86 IAT degrees and that total timing could be reduced by as much as 10 degrees.( if someone finds curve table in the Helms ,please post )...My point is that one of the key things the TUNE does is turn the fans on early to keep ECT down and minimize retard....In my view if you mess with the fan on settings .you reduce the positive effect.....after Tune install ECT holds at 190 degrees and IAT is 104 degrees and still much to hot.The problem is however that the fans are not made for continous on cycle which is now the case. According to Helms,fans should turn off at select road speeds and I dont know if the Predator changes that parameter.Anybody know that fact and if not we should ask Diablo and post a thread,if not these fans will not handle the duty cycle as they are designed for about 30% to 40% on time.

Having said the above,today with air temp of 77 degrees and after about a 10 minute open road drive I returned to a spot where I like to "test" the car.From 20mph roll it hooks up good but burns rubber all the way thru 1st and well into 2nd gear and revs quick.Really good feel in all gears and seems to pull stronger to red line.Also find lots of benefits in being able to run live data but disappointed that we cant data log.

I am not a drag racer but like a clean, good running package, and the Predator helps accomplish that mission

Happy 4th to all

As far a fans running all the time, you would actually get less cooling with them on at speeds over 30 mph. The fans would slow down the air being force fed through the rad by the car moving forward. This is why most race cars don't even have a cooling fan (or only a small electric fan that is controlled by a rocker switch in the car). :p
 

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Knight Errant
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Doc GTO said:
As far a fans running all the time, you would actually get less cooling with them on at speeds over 30 mph. The fans would slow down the air being force fed through the rad by the car moving forward. This is why most race cars don't even have a cooling fan (or only a small electric fan that is controlled by a rocker switch in the car). :p
Doc, I'm pretty sure the computer still turns them off at 30 MPH. On mine I have rolled far enough at 40 to have them shut down, I hear them kick on again just before I comes to a stop at the next sign or light.
 

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I talk with diablo and we will not be seeing live data streams from this unit. They claim there is not enough memory for that use.
 

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Oh my f*ck!
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I take it you mean data logging?

Is it possible to hook this thing up the car and a laptop @ the same time and read the data straight onto the computer?
 

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phobos512 said:
I take it you mean data logging?

Is it possible to hook this thing up the car and a laptop @ the same time and read the data straight onto the computer?
Yup, data logging/streaming data... Can't be done according to Diablo.
 

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Oh my f*ck!
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Well then I'll just have to call up Digikey and order some more RAM for the bad boy. Anyone have a solering iron I can borrow?
 

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Member #804
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mlc said:
I talk with diablo and we will not be seeing live data streams from this unit. They claim there is not enough memory for that use.
It lets you look at IAT ECT fuel trim and 02 sensor voltage right? thats the data stream.

You can log data or snap shot with a scan tool that I have :p
 

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GMH GTO said:
It lets you look at IAT ECT fuel trim and 02 sensor voltage right? thats the data stream.

You can log data or snap shot with a scan tool that I have :p
How? Data from the predator? What tool?
 

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Member #804
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The predator I had for my silverado had section for diagnostics, a data list and let you look at and clear DTCs. Doesn't the GTO predator have this? This is one reason putting the predator step above the hypertech.

scan tool I have is a Vetronix mastertech 3100.
 

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GMH GTO said:
The predator I had for my silverado had section for diagnostics, a data list and let you look at and clear DTCs. Doesn't the GTO predator have this? This is one reason putting the predator step above the hypertech.

scan tool I have is a Vetronix mastertech 3100.
It has sections for diagnostics of trouble code and watching live data. It just doesn't allow you to stream the live data to a pc. The only thing I found you can do is save programs on the pc incase the predator is damaged.
 

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Knight Errant
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Predator(s)

GMH GTO said:
The predator I had for my silverado had section for diagnostics, a data list and let you look at and clear DTCs. Doesn't the GTO predator have this? This is one reason putting the predator step above the hypertech.

scan tool I have is a Vetronix mastertech 3100.
Yes, it does allow viewing Real time data, and viewng and clearing DTC's. I have not explored the limitations of the serial data transfer and software they offer on Site to do so yet. I need to buy the Power Converter from RS for it to do tune transfers to the PC, and I too wonder why it might not be hooked to a laptop and 'sampled' for streaming data....
 

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Old Goat said:
and I too wonder why it might not be hooked to a laptop and 'sampled' for streaming data....
I was rather disapointed and told them so. I went as far as telling them I might not have bought this unit if I had known. Also, the unit they sell for ford DOES stream live data to a PC and couldn't understand why the limitation on the GTO.
 

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Oh my f*ck!
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If logging is a concern I did find this little gadget at Sears in Palmdale a while back. Didn't buy it though. But you plug it into your car's OBD2 port and it records all sorts of parameters, then you can plug it into your computer later on and download everything. I think the idea behind it is keeping an eye on the crazy teenager in your household, but it could be useful nevertheless.

I'll try to figure out what the thing was. It was in the hardware section. That's all I remember. More later...

EDIT Found it on Sears.com. It's called the CarChip. There are two versions. The cheaper ones is linked below and it has a link to the fancier version from that page.

http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?BV_UseBVCookie=Yes&vertical=TOOL&pid=00947096000
 

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Oh my f*ck!
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I may have to feel around and make sure my next rental doesn't have one of these. I can just see Avis sending me a fine or something because I went over some speed limit and they found out due to one of these things.
 

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Member #804
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Still the predator offering a data list is remarkable, the price of a predator is the entry level price of a OBD II scan tool and that isn't going to make your car faster.

The Data list on the predator is about all the hot rodder needs, but remember the information in the data stream is buffered and still is very slow not GM CCC (the first GM computers) slow but can become confusing.
 

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That Avis deal has happened..... the automotive companies already have "black boxes" in their cars for rental companies and insurance companies to know what's going on if there's an issue. I also heard a local "legend" that someone around here got a $400 charge from a rental company for driving "too fast" in the vehicle. Charge was ultimately dropped.
 

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Autobahn Fahrer
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AmesGTO said:
I have read articles where the rental car has gps and data logging. The rental company fines you for speeding. I think the courts will end up deciding that issue though.
ACLU dug so deep into the ass of one company that the rental agency had to take a knee before it was over.

5th Gen Vette'rs have been worried about this for a long time. I'm mildly worried about it if I'm in a wreck while datalogging with Datamaster on the Syclone.

As an Aside...is Datamaster going to come up online for the LS1 or what? Or is the LT1 good enough buisness for them?
 
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