Sound's like a good idea. Nothing shuts someone up like a pair of tail lights. Too bad Nickivee hasn't modded his car, as he would have unquestionable credibility with the older guys. On the other hand, a stock 04, should win over most stock originals.
Warren and I ran into a bunch of old-school guys at the Pontiac Uprising in Wichita. They were all very friendly and fun to hang out with, but they had no interest whatsoever in our cars. Warren and I ended up hanging out with the GTP crowd.
And FWIW, even though I had terrible traction problems, I was running faster than blown big-block Pontiacs with slicks and skinnies.
Whenever I go to the track, there is always a great divide between the carbureted and EFI crowds. Just two different worlds.
But if anyone wants to sponsor me, I'd be happy to make an appearance.
I had a quick little street race w/ a 68 back at the Nat's last year. No contest and I was stock... You have to stop by for a few says Padre, we all want to meet you and see you run that baby. I'm thinking I'll be there Thursday afternoon until end of show.
I was over on PY and got all flustered from those small group of haters on that board that overrun the section of the very car they dispise.
Yeah, I went over there because of this post and joined so that I could put my 2 cents in. The haters have pretty much the same 'tude thrown by Jim Wangers and the boys at the San Diego Pontiac/Oakland Club. The Monaro/GTO will never be accepted as a true GTO, only tolerated.
Their classics are great to have around but I much prefer my '04 to any of the old ones for actual driving.
You may be right SoCal, but I have met meany an 04' owner that was a past classic owner or a collector who still had a few classic GTOs. Those people love the new car. Give it 10 years or so and it won't matter a dingo's dong..
You know, it comes down to 'car people' versus 'club people'. The same tools who hate the LS1/2 GTO's are probably some of the same ones who hate nikkiv's pro-street GTO because 'how could you take a classic and cut it up / ruin it like that'. (And I promise you those guys are out there and will be at the nat'ls.)
Personally I like performance cars, people who wrench on them regardless of old / new, Ford, GM or Mopar - whatever. Remember, we were the ones at Nat'ls last year who pulled in w/ the mystichrome svt 'stang. I'm sure that helped endear the 'old GTO' crowd to the new ones too!
To be honest, everybody in the world could hate my GTO and it's still the perfect car for me - f'em.
Dan
Naw, I think the current one "All the great taste of the original without the carbs!" drives home the point pretty good!
There has always been a divide between Carbed and EFI vehicles. Even in the F-Body world. None of them take you seriously, at least not until you walk them down the track!
The guys at PY are only interested in THEIR cars and nobody elses.
I don't know if they could really be classified as car guys,
because they are only interested in their particular marque and in most cases
their particular model.
And I can probalby take that further and say particular year and particular engine.
Kind of reminds of the Packard Convention I went to 2 yrs ago. I mentioned to one of the guys that I owned a Camaro and his eyes glazed over so fast it made my head spin.
The PY forums have basically taken absurdity to new levels.
There has actually been an ongoing discussion for months
about whether the LS1 is a GM engine or a Chevy engine.
Apparently, one guy has determined for himself that it is a Chevy engine and because
our GTOs are powered by "Chevy" engines, they are therefore crap and unworthy of wearing any Pontiac badging.
I think this guy is still living in 1974 or something.
You know, it comes down to 'car people' versus 'club people'. The same tools who hate the LS1/2 GTO's are probably some of the same ones who hate nikkiv's pro-street GTO because 'how could you take a classic and cut it up / ruin it like that'. (And I promise you those guys are out there and will be at the nat'ls.)
Personally I like performance cars, people who wrench on them regardless of old / new, Ford, GM or Mopar - whatever. Remember, we were the ones at Nat'ls last year who pulled in w/ the mystichrome svt 'stang. I'm sure that helped endear the 'old GTO' crowd to the new ones too!
To be honest, everybody in the world could hate my GTO and it's still the perfect car for me - f'em.
Dan
I totally agree. The Classic lovers are just jealous of our cars because ours are faster, handle better, more comfortable, and much better interior. I like the looks better than the Classics also but that is a subjective opinion.
LOL! It amazes me that they still cling to their cars as die hards because it has a true "PONTIAC" engine.
Hey newflash you rocket scientists, it's 2005, GM is a corporation. As a corporation, they have a division that specifically deals in engines and transmissions, yea that's right, it's GM Powertrain! It's more cost affective and streamlined, what a concept, huh?
THe Compulink timers at the drag strip don't determine the winner on whether or not you have a TRUE Pontiac motor or a corporate motor!
I say leave them in their 35 year old fog and let them do what they want. Their crowd is getting older and their cars are getting fewer. Feel sorry for them. I met a '70 owner this weekend at the San Jose auto show. He wasn't interested in having new goats in his club. Who wants to be in a club if they are not wanted? I just let it go.
Mike, sad thing is, is that many of these groups DO want youth membership. They realize that if they don't, they face extinction as both their members and their cars fizzle away.
Problem is, they want us to like what they like and not bring in our own interpretation of the same formula. Most of us here aren't afraifd of change and more willing to accept newer "technology". They see "technology" as a complicated evil.
Your post reminds me of some things that I have observed over the years that seem relevant.
When the early GTOs were popular, cars were the most technical and coolest toys available to most guys that they could tinker on/with. These were the cars for their generation. As time has progressed, cars and technology have changed.
Not everyone is willing to move on with the times. Look at all the ridiculous music collection albums/cds compiled of "Pop" music from different years/time frames. Obviously that music is a connection to the past for the people who are interested in it. I have observed that many people like to stick with what was cool in the "good old times" when they were in high school or college.
Each generation has a different perspective of what is the cool new thing to be into. Currently younger guys tinker with computers, and or games/gaming platforms. If they're into cars, their generational thing is the "Ricer" style for the most part. It takes a certain special something to grow beyond the old and comfortable and embrace new things. Some people got it, some don't. I think it is safe to say that if you bought a new GTO, you've probably got it.
Mike, sad thing is, is that many of these groups DO want youth membership. They realize that if they don't, they face extinction as both their members and their cars fizzle away.
Problem is, they want us to like what they like and not bring in our own interpretation of the same formula. Most of us here aren't afraifd of change and more willing to accept newer "technology". They see "technology" as a complicated evil.
That's just it. I would have probably joined the Golden Gates GTO club, but they had a secret vote and the results were to exclude the new goats. How many under 30 guys can afford a $25K and up "Classic". Maybe they can spend that much on a daily driver, but not on a weekend/show car. I have a lot of respect and fondness of the older stuff for what it was at the time. Would be willing to enjoy what they have and share what I have, but if they just want to live in the past, watch their members die off and cars fall apart, then that doesn't sound like a lot of fun. Plus, if they want to feel superior with their '74s then that's their business.
I wonder if the Mini crowd has this same problem. Kraut minis vs Limey minis.....
There's just something wrong about that. It would be like the guy in his Mustang II who was trying to race me the other day... like joining a "Mustang II" club.
Yeah, the Packard Club that I belong to has a "Future Packard Owners" club, where the children of members are overseen by an adult, and the kids have their own judging, activities, etc. They even give out thier own award at the annual meets for the Packard that they judged as best in show.
The Packard club does not allow modified cars or even cars w/ non factory 12volt systems, etc., but I think that is fine.
Maybe the Pontiac clubs should start a "Future Pontiac" or "GTO" owners club.
It just seems kind of myopic for a club to not allow the new GTOs.
People usually do this kind of thing when they are threatened.
It is pretty small minded and probably is not a loss for any of us.
You know, it comes down to 'car people' versus 'club people'. The same tools who hate the LS1/2 GTO's are probably some of the same ones who hate nikkiv's pro-street GTO because 'how could you take a classic and cut it up / ruin it like that'. Dan
What about those of us that have had both?
I had a '68. It was a total POS! and I loved it.
I have a '04. It's an incredible automobile. and I love it.
Naw, I think the current one "All the great taste of the original without the carbs!" drives home the point pretty good!
There has always been a divide between Carbed and EFI vehicles. Even in the F-Body world. None of them take you seriously, at least not until you walk them down the track!
LMAO! Definitely true about the carbs vs. EFI crowds. A guy at Photo's some of my friends know has an old Cutlass that's quick by it's own right. I think he runs low 12s. Anyway he was nice but always giving us shit for having fuel injection saying we were slow, "you can't work on those cars" etc.
Then Jason gave him a ride in his h/c blown '02 WS6. The poor guy was shitting bricks when they came back. He couldn't get his cigarette lit his hands were shaking so bad.