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OK, I just have to jump in on this one. Our GTO club here in So Cal has several members with both new and old goats. I also belong to the So Cal POCI club and there are about 4 with new goats in that club.

I have had 68 goats for 10 years now and when the new 04 came out I couldn’t wait to get one. And I think this car is great. It's a daily driver in all weather. I keep the 68's out of the rain only because they are more susceptible to rust.

Our yearly GTO show is sponsored by Cerritos Pontiac who brought over a couple of the 04’s last year and we hope they bring a couple of 05’s this year.

I guess what I am getting at here is that not all old goat owners are prudes. We even have one owner who bought his first GTO new in 1965. He has driven an 04 for a magazine shoot and he really liked it. I have not gotten any bad remarks from anyone in our club, at least not to my face.

As for the carb-vs-EFI goes I have a 68 GTO with a 455 Pontiac block and a custom built EFI system. I have taken this car to 3 GTOAA national events and countless other events and have not ever had anyone make any negative comments about the EFI. Again, at least not to my face.

Just please don't let the few neigh Sayers leave a bad taste in your mouth for all the classic GTO owners. From a person who is in the clubs I would say there are at least 10-1 people who like the new cars vs ones who don't.

Some pics:



Finish line after going 145mph for 90 miles!
 
b4z said:
The guys at PY are only interested in THEIR cars and nobody elses.
I don't know if they could really be classified as car guys,
because they are only interested in their particular marque and in most cases
their particular model.
And I can probalby take that further and say particular year and particular engine.

Kind of reminds of the Packard Convention I went to 2 yrs ago. I mentioned to one of the guys that I owned a Camaro and his eyes glazed over so fast it made my head spin.

The PY forums have basically taken absurdity to new levels.

There has actually been an ongoing discussion for months
about whether the LS1 is a GM engine or a Chevy engine.

Apparently, one guy has determined for himself that it is a Chevy engine and because
our GTOs are powered by "Chevy" engines, they are therefore crap and unworthy of wearing any Pontiac badging.

I think this guy is still living in 1974 or something.

Also, I think nikkivee has been banned from PY.

Don't get me started.
Here is a little history lesson. Everyone into chevy knows that the LT1 designation used 90's was originally used on early 70s camaros and corvettes(chevy).
Well the LS1 designation was originally used to identify the Ram Air III engine in the 70 GTO and 70 Trans Am(Pontiac). If that isn't enough to make you say "Pontiac Engine" lets go to the LS2. 73 and 74 Trans Am Super Duty Engine designation is LS2. So when I am faced with people that want to call the LS1 a chevy engine I just have to point this out.

Gary
 
Right but a little history lesson also, those engines then used a "-" between the letters, I.E. LT-1.

So there shouldn't be any confusion between the LT-1 and the LT1.
 
The folks on Performance Years have been around for a long time and live and breath Pontiacs, mostly GTO's. Some hard core racing people on this site.
You probably will not find a better group of well mannered, respectful, knowledgable Pontiac people than the members of this site.
Many are quite famous in their own right, racing back in the 60's perhaps sooner some setting national records.
One thing for sites success is that the the guy that owns PY is very active on the site and keeps it clean, fresh and active in national events. He is also a highly successful business man who has personally been responsible for bringing (tooling up, mfg.) many reproduction parts to the GTO hobby. Parts that could no longer be found in quantities for the resto hobby crowd. This is one a of a few resto, (NOS) parts companies respected in Pontiac circles.

I guess its like the debate between a 65 lover and a 70 GTO lover. Or A body vrs F body. etc.....
I myself have 70 GTO and dont often go around, hang out with or contribute to any say 65 threads. Just not high on my list of favs.

There is probably some missconception that the new GTOs are being bought by "young guys" in early twenties, just out of a Fast and Furious car, but I bet marketing data would prove this wrong.
I am 46 and would bet the farm that if ten older die hard GTO guys DROVE the new GTO for FIVE MINUTES and NAILED IT in low gear....more than half would be sold in under TEN MINUTES! I was, and now own a 05 Silver GTO. I would put this car up against any car I have ever owned for driving excitement and includes race cars, old muscle cars, offroad , modern performance cars, and (offshore performance boat.. for sale by the way)
I tried to keep an open mind about this car and decided to buy one without even driving. I did drive, but had already bought on phone and first time I fired it up I KNEW this car was really going to be special. PONTIAC EXCITEMENT. Man, they hit it, not perfect at first for everyone, but its here.
Its human nature for us to put people in easy to form "catorgories" BUT I say give em time...
they will come around! All they have to do is DRIVE ONE! Three years and its accepted by the masses, IMO.
Regards.....Harpoon
 
Just stumbled across this thread...

...and it reminded me a bit of my experience w/ Mustangs. I've been a fan of them from the mid-60's, and owned an '87 gt. Never did like the late 90's body...was going to buy an '05 until the dealers went psycho on the pricing.

Last year my wife and I went to the 40th Anniversary Mustang show in Nashville. Although there certainly was crossover, as an old 'stang guy, I thought all of the new 'stangs being shown was weird. I just didn't have any interest in looking at an '03 'stang, even mod'd. LOVED old 'stangs w/ new powerplants, suspension upgrades, etc.

These new GTO's are such a different breed of car from the old goats, I can see that they would appeal to very different people. I still think that the name may have HURT rather than HELPED sales of these cars...but, what does some old Mustang guy know! I DO KNOW that I LOVE this '05 goat, and my even looking at something about GTOAA Nat's is ONLY because of that.

Don't know if I'll make this show...but really do want to see a bunch of these cars sometime. Haven't seen another one on the road, yet.
 
I think I'll have my mods done by then So I should be there!
 
SoCal Goat said:
DevilYellow said:
I was over on PY and got all flustered from those small group of haters on that board that overrun the section of the very car they dispise.

Yeah, I went over there because of this post and joined so that I could put my 2 cents in. The haters have pretty much the same 'tude thrown by Jim Wangers and the boys at the San Diego Pontiac/Oakland Club. The Monaro/GTO will never be accepted as a true GTO, only tolerated.

Their classics are great to have around but I much prefer my '04 to any of the old ones for actual driving.
I'm suprised at what you say about Jim Wangers attitude towards new Goats. To read his editorials in PE you would think that his problem is with the GM bean-counters and ad execs who He thinks have totally screwed up marketing the GTO. Last year he wrote a article for PE praising the '04 GTO and calling it worthy of the name.
 
I don't think calling PY'ers out at the track will solve anything. Only time will bridge the GTO generation gap. I've been on Performance Years for quite a while, the obvious reason is in my avatar and sig. It's truly a great board for vintage Pontiac information and most of their repro parts are second to none. There are lots of great people, just like on this board...and a few jerks who just like to stir the shit. The majority of the haters on that site will readily admit that the new GTO is an outstanding modern performance/muscle car, and I don't think they'd be surprised to get their ass handed to them in a race. What they hate is #1 the styling, #2 it's not a "true Pontiac" motor and #3 it not made in the USA. Racing folks with these views won't change their opinions of our cars. Nothing will. There are a few folks that keep trying to convert the haters, but all that does is proliferate the bickering and the useless, mind-numbing posts. Understand that Performance Years is dedicated to restoring and maintaining classic Pontiacs which means many people there will, by default, be stuck in the past and resistant to change. The 04 GTO forum can get pretty ugly at times. I'm not really sure why there is even a new GTO forum on PY...It doesn't fit with the theme of the site, and it just gives the haters a place to troll and bash. Like I said, only time will bring acceptance of our cars from vintage owners, and it may not. Personally I don't care if the haters accept my car. All that matters is that I accept it. I am actually seeing more PY folks (just a trickle) adding new GTOs to their stables, which means they aren't all stuck in the past. And the latest banner on PY has two cartoon GTOs next to each other, a '66 and an '05.
 
Discussion starter · #49 ·
The Black Phantom said:
I'm suprised at what you say about Jim Wangers attitude towards new Goats. To read his editorials in PE you would think that his problem is with the GM bean-counters and ad execs who He thinks have totally screwed up marketing the GTO. Last year he wrote a article for PE praising the '04 GTO and calling it worthy of the name.
He hasnt always been pro-new gto .... before he strongly disliked the idea of this car being called a GTO.
 
DevilYellow said:
He hasnt always been pro-new gto .... before he strongly disliked the idea of this car being called a GTO.
As did many until they drove it with an open mind. I was among them. But when you truly look at the GTO history, this car fits.
Apart from:

The lack of Scoops
(Most GTO Scoops were non functional apart from letting air into the engine bay, Ram Air was an option)

The fact that it isn't built here.
(GM is a global company now)

But a GTO has always been a stock Pontiac sedan with a big motor tossed in. In my opinion this may very well be the nicest GTO built. Especialy an 04' with the SAP hood. :) I loved my 68 drop top and I may own another some day but This car blows it away in preformance, comfort and quality. The only thing the 68 had over this is stye. In my eyes, there is no better looking car than a 68/69 GTO convertable.
 
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