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Discussion Starter #1
Considering that I rotate my tires every 5 - 6,000 miles, it was especially frustrating to find out today that at only 15,815 miles that both of my right side tires had to be replaced. This excessive wear condition was traced to my GTO's right rear camber being out of spec at -1 7/8 degrees ... as the Specified Range is -1 5/8 -3/8 degrees ... and when my shop attemped to realign it within the "Specifed Range" they informed me that, and to quote, " The manufacturer does not specify a rear CAMBER adjustment." So WTF ... here I've got an out of spec problem that they're telling me cannot be fixed ... at least not per GM/Pontiac GTO specifications ... how can that be?

So ... has anybody else out there had a similar experience? Or a recommended "fix"?

And while I should have noticed the excessive wear, how could I have even expected this to happen when like I stated earlier ... I don't even have 16,000 miles on tires that I rotate at every 5 - 6,000 miles? BFG's are good tires, aren't they?

So, will a cross directional tire rotation every 3 to 5,000 miles as recommended by my tire dealer help counter this seemingly "unfixable" condition?

ANY/ALL thoughts or recommendations from my fellow Goat owners is certainly appreciated ... e.g. should I take this up with my Dealer?
 

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Suspension Guru
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7,700 Posts
The real question is this,
Is your front causing the wear or is it the rear. Since you've been rotating your tires you can only assume that it's the rear from the alignment readings. Chances are though, it's the front.

Problem with the front is the Radius rod bushings allow a ton of play from the factory, this play allows a toe change and thus wears the inside of the front tires out badly, especially under hard braking.

If it is indeed the rear, the most likely cause fo rthat is the rear springs. The stock springs have a habit of sagging, and when the rear sags, the camber goes more negative (top goes in). Replacing the rear springs with a 0 drop spring will help with that issue.

What is the ride height of the rear?
Howto in this link
http://wretchedmotorsports.com/product_info.php?products_id=62
 

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Yellow Jacket/M6
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320 Posts
Have you hit or bumped any curbs? I've seen alot of light curb hits in cars that damage rear components. If you haven't hit anything you can take it to the dealership under warranty. Then if they don't fix it you could get the rear camber kit that SLP sells and take it back for an alignment, hopefully that would fix it. Good Luck
 

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Suspension Guru
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7,700 Posts
The camber kit that SLP sells is a 4 eccentric adjuster, the problem with this is the 4 adjusters, in combination with a toe adjuster can allow the rear hub to be to close to the center of the car, and bind the halfshaft, then as a result damage the rear diff.

Rear springs, and possible a rear cradle alignment if the rear camber spread(the difference left to right) is enough.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Coil Spring ... Ride Height

Thanks Rob for your response ... but before I take the ride height measurements I will need to burn up some gas in order to get down to 1/4 tank as I now have an almost full tank.

and per your thoughts on the front of my car ... Pre-alignment, the Toe "Actual" was indeed out of spec at - 1/16in versus the spec of 0in 1/16in ... everythng else pre-alignment on all four wheels was indeed in spec, except ... Toe out on front right ... Camber out on rear right ...!

Post-alignment the only out of spec condition that they could not adjust was the rear camber at -1 7/8!

thanks again!

The real question is this,
Is your front causing the wear or is it the rear. Since you've been rotating your tires you can only assume that it's the rear from the alignment readings. Chances are though, it's the front.

Problem with the front is the Radius rod bushings allow a ton of play from the factory, this play allows a toe change and thus wears the inside of the front tires out badly, especially under hard braking.

If it is indeed the rear, the most likely cause fo rthat is the rear springs. The stock springs have a habit of sagging, and when the rear sags, the camber goes more negative (top goes in). Replacing the rear springs with a 0 drop spring will help with that issue.

What is the ride height of the rear?
Howto in this link
http://wretchedmotorsports.com/product_info.php?products_id=62
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Curbs ...? SLP Rear Camber Kits?

Nice thought but no hits or bumps into any curbs!

Regarding the Dealer ... I guess that an actual stop by the day or so after Christmas is in order versus just a phone call!

And lastly ... regarding the SLP rear camber kit, that's a nice idea but can they cause any related problems to differential or drivetrain? and how complicated is the install?

Thanks for your reply ...



Have you hit or bumped any curbs? I've seen alot of light curb hits in cars that damage rear components. If you haven't hit anything you can take it to the dealership under warranty. Then if they don't fix it you could get the rear camber kit that SLP sells and take it back for an alignment, hopefully that would fix it. Good Luck
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
Curbs ...? SLP Rear Camber Kits?

Nice thought but no hits or bumps into any curbs!

Regarding the Dealer ... I guess that an actual stop by the day or so after Christmas is in order versus just a phone call!

And lastly ... regarding the rear camber kits, that's a nice idea but can they cause any related problems to differential or drivetrain? and how complicated is the install? and how about SLP versus Pedders ... any preference or history with either?

Thanks for your reply ...



Have you hit or bumped any curbs? I've seen alot of light curb hits in cars that damage rear components. If you haven't hit anything you can take it to the dealership under warranty. Then if they don't fix it you could get the rear camber kit that SLP sells and take it back for an alignment, hopefully that would fix it. Good Luck
 

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Seriously check the springs. I just replaced my sagging ass rear springs and there is enough of a difference to see while looking at the back of the car.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Ride Height Measurements ...

Thanks and once I get down to 1/4 tank of gas I will re-take the measurements cuz with almost a full tank the rears measured right at 575 mm on both sides versus the 604 mm spec' ... and I have the 17 inch wheels.

Now for another question, the fronts were a little low at 590 mm versus the 595 mm spec' ... so if the rears are also low, would it be a good idea to go ahead and change out both front AND rear springs? I saw a decent deal on all four from Pedders ... OR would you have yet another helpful recommendation?

Thank you again for your helpful suggestions and MERRY CHRISTMAS!



Neither the SLP or the Pedders adjusters are the best option for you, yet. If you have sagged stock springs you need to replace the springs before you worry about the camber adjusters.
 

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Kollar Racing Products
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5,426 Posts
If this car is still under warranty, insist the dealer fix the car. If the car is out of warranty have a different shop look at the alignment. It wouldnt be the first time two different alignment shops comeback with different numbers. You should not need a camber kit with stock springs.
GM measures ride height at different points then Peddars (Shop Manual page 3-14, they also specify a full tank of gas. There is a solid 20 MM spread on what GM states as acceptable. Off the top of my head thats about 3/4" before the springs would require replacement. Your car would be sitting like it had drop springs in it. I would definetely get a second opinion before I started changing parts...when nothing more then an adjustment was required.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Still under Warranty ... GM Major Guard Coverage (72 months or 90,000 miles)!

:cool: Yes, I'm still covered under this extended warranty, which does not expire until 06/25/2011 ... so ... after reading what this "Agreement Does Not Cover", the only suspension repairs & parts not covered are limited to tires, alignments, wheel balancing, cross member and shock absorbers ... so I should be covered for all of the rest of the identifiable suspension problems like springs, radius rods, bushings and the rest of the "etc., etc.'s" ... right?

So it's back to the Dealer for me!! Ya gotta like those extended warranties when they work! :cool:

Thanks a lot for your reply to my problem ...


If this car is still under warranty, insist the dealer fix the car. If the car is out of warranty have a different shop look at the alignment. It wouldnt be the first time two different alignment shops comeback with different numbers. You should not need a camber kit with stock springs.
GM measures ride height at different points then Peddars (Shop Manual page 3-14, they also specify a full tank of gas. There is a solid 20 MM spread on what GM states as acceptable. Off the top of my head thats about 3/4" before the springs would require replacement. Your car would be sitting like it had drop springs in it. I would definetely get a second opinion before I started changing parts...when nothing more then an adjustment was required.
 

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Turkeyhawk
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832 Posts
If this car is still under warranty, insist the dealer fix the car.
:cool: Yes, I'm still covered under this extended warranty, which does not expire until 06/25/2011 ... so ... after reading what this "Agreement Does Not Cover", the only suspension repairs & parts not covered are limited to tires, alignments, wheel balancing, cross member and shock absorbers ... so I should be covered for all of the rest of the identifiable suspension problems like springs, radius rods, bushings and the rest of the "etc., etc.'s" ... right? Wrong!

So it's back to the Dealer for me!! Ya gotta like those extended warranties when they work! They Don't!

Thanks a lot for your reply to my problem ...
Not to pee on the parade, but good luck with that. Zero chance you're gonna convince the dealer that your >16,000 mile GTO needs new rear springs, and while they're at it new front springs and radius rod bushes and struts and or strut tops etc etc etc.

Your new here aren't you? Let it keep eating tires but help it by cross rotating or get ready to spend about $2500-$4500 to not only fix it but totally transform the driving experience and performance. OK, I guess I pee'd a little?
 

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Kollar Racing Products
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I will agree with Turkeyhawk that expecting the dealer to replace all of that under warranty is never going to happen. However he paid for warranty. The only thing this car may need is a $100 alignment by someone with a clue to fix his tire wear and camber problem.
 
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