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I've started to notice the limited slip isn't so limited again. I already had the differential replaced once and I don't want to do it again but the last few times I stepped on it in a corner the inside wheel would spin but not the outside. Has anyone else seen this problem and is there something I might be doing to cause it? I was wondering if it might have to do with the stickier tires I have causing too much strain on the diff? Do I just need to get a sturdier rear end? Any help would be much appreciated.
 

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I am not surprised that you have worn out another differential. In my opinion, the differentials are crap. Most of the performance cars in this price range have crappy differentials, but the vast majority of the consumers never notice because they only accelerate in a straightline and never use the power in a corner.

So, consider yourself one of the one percenters.

I know that mine is fried also.

Further, when the do replace the differential they are likely to add a bit extra "friction modifier" which essentially makes the differential slip more and thus reduce wear. However, of course, it also significantly reduces the effectiveness of the differential. If I recall correctly, that is standard operating procedures at most GM dealerships to make the problem "go away."

That is probably what happened to you.

In any case, my advice is to replace it with a more robust differential. GM won't pay for that, but they also won't continue to pay to replace your differential.

Some on this board like the KAAZ limited slip. However, most of those folks are posting from Australia where they are readily available and where they have the most experience with them. Further, my understanding of those differentials is that they are also built using a clutch pack which will wear out. Some think this is a positive trait because the differential is "rebuildable." Personally, I think that is a pain in the [email protected]@.

I have been in constant contact with Torsen because I want to install one of their differentials (the T2R specifically). Their units never wear out. The problem is that they don't know if their unit would fit into our differentials.

We need to convince someone on this board to drive their GTO over to Torsen to let them take measurements and let them determine what will work.

Good luck!

Jim
 

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briandors said:
Someone should also talk to Quaife perhaps??
Probably wouldn't hurt. However, one thing that I noticed with them is that they don't list any GM vehicles in their list of applications. I wonder if they don't do Dana rear ends.

Jim
 

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Where?

JimHoward said:
...I have been in constant contact with Torsen because I want to install one of their differentials (the T2R specifically). Their units never wear out. The problem is that they don't know if their unit would fit into our differentials.

We need to convince someone on this board to drive their GTO over to Torsen to let them take measurements and let them determine what will work.

Good luck!

Jim
Where is Torsen located? The www.torsen.com site lists a New York address, but is that were someone needs to take their car?

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I only leave one stripe if I start in a off in a turn. It has been that way since I got the car.
 

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I called KAAZ earlier this month, diff should be ready for sale within first week of July est. price under $950. I think KAAZ is better, for a torsen diff to work it needs some slipage to engauge itself where a KAAZ is locked for 100% when you drop the clutch.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
GMH GTO said:
I called KAAZ earlier this month, diff should be ready for sale within first week of July est. price under $950. I think KAAZ is better, for a torsen diff to work it needs some slipage to engauge itself where a KAAZ is locked for 100% when you drop the clutch.
Who would install this and how much for the install? Also, how long would we expect that one to last?
 

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You could go to a dealership and ask for estimate to replace LSD, get their prices, call an independant shop then call speed Inc. I havn't been to nor spoke to speed inc. but they have done alot of work on GTOs and could probley give you the most accurate quote.

How long they last, nobody here has one so its difficult. I think they will last a long time many thousand of miles with your driving style. RMR I know has only pruchased ONE KAAZ diff and it has held up for them so far and look at the abuse they are giving it.
 

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Well, I don't want to hijack this thread and turn it into a KAAZ vs. Torsen debate. However, when I see someone post something that is blatantly wrong I must correct them.

The statement about a Torsen requiring some slip before engaging is absolutely false. Please read the article at which explains far better than I can:

http://www.torsen.com/files/Traction_Control_Article.pdf

Also, regarding the life of the differentials. As I stated earlier, the amount of life you get out of a limited slip depends upon how you use it and your sensitivity to the effectiveness of the limited slip. I agree that almost any performance limited slip will last far longer than the stock unit and that you will probably be happy with any of them.

I realize that the RMR drift GTO uses a KAAZ limited slip also. However, I do not know how they have set up the differential nor do I know how often they are forced to rebuild the differential. Indeed, they have failed to answer any of my inquiries about the effectiveness of their unit. My supposition is that they use the KAAZ limited slip because it appears to be well known to the import racer crowd and that the sponsorship is worth it.

Further, I would also assert that the way that the RMR drift GTO uses the limited slip is FAR LESS abusive than what you would see on a race track or on an autocross course (where I have ten + years experience). Why? The RMR drift GTO is setup to keep the rear wheels constantly spinning which only requires that the rear wheels are locked together and that there is little or nor bias between the rear wheels. In other words, they are likely to have a very high pre-load built into their differential to ensure that the rears lock together very quickly.

Why doesn't this wear out their differential? Because once the rear wheels are locked together there is no differential in speed between them and thus there is no differential in speed between the clutches in the differential. No differential in speed means no wear on the clutches. Therefore, they last very long.

This is also the same situation for drag racers. They always drag race in a straight line and do not want the rear wheels to have a differential in speed. Therefore, they want the differential to lock up sooner. That is the thinking behind some of the after market electronically controlled differentials. They rely upon a clutch pack for normal driving and then rely upon a set of solenoids that force the clutch pack to lock up for drag racing. You certainly would not use that type of differential in any road race or autocross application.

When you apply the power in a turn and DO NOT want the rear wheels to break traction and drift around a corner, like any driver in an autocross or road race, there is a differential in speed between the wheels and you want the power to be differentially applied to both wheels. That situation causes a very high amount of wear between any clutch material because the clutches have a speed differential.

Ask any of the road racers and autocrossers who run the SCCA circuit. They all strongly prefer a torque biasing differential (like a Quaiffe or a Torsen) over any clutch pack unit.

I have no personal connection to Torsen or Quaiffe. I also have nothing againt the KAAZ differential, other than their extremely high price for a unit that is going to wear out and require rebuilding.

Jim
 

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Thanks Jim,
 

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2 stripes in a stright line, just confirmed it at lunch...
 

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Just received a reply from Quaiffe. I pasted it below. They clearly aren't interested. I asked Torsen if they would be willing to take a look at one of our GTOs to determine what would fit and havent received a response yet.

Jim,
Thank you for your recent inquiry. Currently we do not have any plans to make a differential for that application. As of right now, it would take a someone to commit to an entire batch run to get the parts made. that would consist of us receiving a sample part, and third member. from there we would give you a price quote based on a 30 minimum piece run. let us know if there is anything else we can do for you.

Jason Alvarez
Quaife Aftermarket Manager
 

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GMH GTO said:
Jim if a Torsen diff is unexistant why keep beating the dead horse? KAAZ is available thats why I recommend it. Read this link.

http://www.teamnabr.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=5
Thanks for the article. You are right about the availability. That really does make the point moot. Until, Torsen or Quaiffe decides to make one for our application. There really is no choice.

However, my understanding is that it is only a matter of time before someone takes the necessary measurements to determine which Torsen unit will fit. So, we will eventually have one that will fit.

I won't even begin to address the problems with the bias and misunderstanding in the article that you posted. After reviewing it I can only say that I would agree with about 10% of what is said by that retailer who is clearly pushing KAAZ diffs over the Torsen type.

Who bows to Mazdaspeed or Nismo? Certainly not me.

Jim
 

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JimHoward said:
Thanks for the article. You are right about the availability. That really does make the point moot. Until, Torsen or Quaiffe decides to make one for our application. There really is no choice.

However, my understanding is that it is only a matter of time before someone takes the necessary measurements to determine which Torsen unit will fit. So, we will eventually have one that will fit.

I won't even begin to address the problems with the bias and misunderstanding in the article that you posted. After reviewing it I can only say that I would agree with about 10% of what is said by that retailer who is clearly pushing KAAZ diffs over the Torsen type.

Who bows to Mazdaspeed or Nismo? Certainly not me.

Jim

Jim,

If you have a contact at Torsen in the New York / New Jersey area I would be willing to drive up!
 

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lanseman said:
Jim,

If you have a contact at Torsen in the New York / New Jersey area I would be willing to drive up!
I just sent Torsen another message. They tell me that all they need is the dimensions. It would be great if you could drive up and let them get a hand on one of our GTOs and let them take measurements.

I will let you know as soon as I hear back.

Thanks!!!

Jim
 

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Or you could get the LSD shimmed up real tight, mine used to do the same on corners, just spin the inner wheel, now, it 2 wheels all the time, launching is great although comfort is slightly compromised.

The diff is noisier, you can feel it lock up at parking lot speeds when making a turn and it clunks when you slow down or apply power suddenly, but Ive gotten used to it :)
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Speedy Gonzales said:
Or you could get the LSD shimmed up real tight, mine used to do the same on corners, just spin the inner wheel, now, it 2 wheels all the time, launching is great although comfort is slightly compromised.

The diff is noisier, you can feel it lock up at parking lot speeds when making a turn and it clunks when you slow down or apply power suddenly, but Ive gotten used to it :)
how do you get it "shimmed up", and who would do this?
 

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cjlannoy said:
how do you get it "shimmed up", and who would do this?
:sneaky: :sneaky: hmmm....
 
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