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OK the government issues you a driver's license. It is not a right like gun ownership per the bill of rights. If you want to go down that line. So the government could remove your license too. Now in theory you aren't supposed to be able to buy a car without a valid driver's license. Now I say in theory as I don't know how well that is enforced either but every car I've ever bought other than private sale - I've been required to give my DL for a copy to be made.

TO that end. the government also issues you a license plate for said car. To be used on public streets. without said valid license and fees paid the car can be impounded. So it is within reason for the government to start requiring veichle inspections and disallowing of license to cars that are modified.

Which happens already in parts of the country.


But no OMG they wants to clean the air by bannin' our cars. . . . . . . you know they do make better cats, and there are several hundred HP cars that run cats without any issues. Now when they want to start banning aftermarket shocks and brakes, body panels etc - I'll start being more upset over it.

I will say the tuner aspect has be a bit concerns. Exhaust parts - yeah sorry you need to run cats.
have fun expecting the EPA to be ok with installing hi-po cats yourself in your garage.
 

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Have Bar, Will Travel
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whatever I was just trying to explain to you where this comes from. It's not just the EPA that brought this to light. you have to also understand that the conspiracy against you includes the maker of the car and your insurance company.

to think it's only about the epa is shortsighted.
 

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whatever I was just trying to explain to you where this comes from. It's not just the EPA that brought this to light. you have to also understand that the conspiracy against you includes the maker of the car and your insurance company.

to think it's only about the epa is shortsighted.
oh, yeah, since when is the government not influenced by money? we know.
 

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Now when they want to start banning aftermarket shocks and brakes, body panels etc - I'll start being more upset over it.

I will say the tuner aspect has be a bit concerns. Exhaust parts - yeah sorry you need to run cats.
This is exactly how you lose all of your freedoms. One thing at a time and no one cares when they take away things you don't like just like others don't care once they take away things you like.

If you really are an auto enthusiast then you would care about this. The right to freely travel and doing so with commonly available transportation options should be a right. I don't care if you think I need to run cats because your plane does more to our environment than my ethanol burning weekend toy with 2000 miles a year of use.
 

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Have Bar, Will Travel
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have fun expecting the EPA to be ok with installing hi-po cats yourself in your garage.

If insurance and auto magnate had their way you wouldn't be able to fix your car either. How far do you want to go? I don't think this is going to be that enforceable. It will end up with - did you change the OEM emissions design yes or no. If yes didi you use an approved replacement yes or no. if no - here's your fine and get it fixed before you can have your license back.

that's about as far as I think it will go. Does that mean you can't buy a cat less exhaust for your new jeep rubicon - yes it does. Can you potentially get a modified exhaust setup with bigger muffs and a high flow cat - yes you can.

And here's another thing missing here. OK so you can't buy a stainless works exahust without cats for your ____.

ON the tuning from the big issue I have read about so far is the ability to turn off emissions controls - again here I'm OK with that. I mean golly dodge made a factory car that met 2016 emissions standards punching more than 700 HP out.

Biggest issues I see is the new cars with the cats in the manifolds, ya'll probably don't have one yet but they are out there.
 

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OK the government issues you a driver's license. It is not a right like gun ownership per the bill of rights. If you want to go down that line. So the government could remove your license too. Now in theory you aren't supposed to be able to buy a car without a valid driver's license. Now I say in theory as I don't know how well that is enforced either but every car I've ever bought other than private sale - I've been required to give my DL for a copy to be made.

TO that end. the government also issues you a license plate for said car. To be used on public streets. without said valid license and fees paid the car can be impounded. So it is within reason for the government to start requiring veichle inspections and disallowing of license to cars that are modified.

Which happens already in parts of the country.


But no OMG they wants to clean the air by bannin' our cars. . . . . . . you know they do make better cats, and there are several hundred HP cars that run cats without any issues. Now when they want to start banning aftermarket shocks and brakes, body panels etc - I'll start being more upset over it.

I will say the tuner aspect has be a bit concerns. Exhaust parts - yeah sorry you need to run cats.
I get how it works, I have all of these things. I'm just saying this entire "It's a privilege not a right" mindset is bullshit. What about eating what you want? Is that a privilege or a right? Because when the government says, "Now you can only eat this because we deem everything else as attributable to heart disease" are you going to say the same thing?


To an extent. There are certainly things we can do that take modding too far and can make a vehicle unsafe. That said, the whole idea about possibly not being able to add headers to your performance car makes me sad.
Of course, but that's not the point I was making.
 

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Have Bar, Will Travel
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I did start off with welcome to the gun rights fight.

Thing is I agree with cleaner air. So no I see no reason why you can't run cats. Now tuning the car I think is needed, I'm a huge fan of right to repair. Yes you should be able to retune your car so it runs as well as it can - with cats on and making emission regulations. PROVIDED IT IS STILL A LICENSED STREET CAR.

you take the plate off it and trailer it to a race track - roll whatever. which is why there are some cars that are sold from manufacturers as uncertified for street use. LaFerrari is one, that COPO camaro is one. there are a few.

You take a certified sold car like a 2021 mustang GT with PP2 - it meets emissions requirements today. tune the engine if you can (there isn't much left on the table that I know of). change the wheels, so some lightning mods, etc and go have fun. But when you decide it needs twins - or a big huffer on top - as you change your exhaust put bigger cats on to handle it all. I don't really have an issue with that.

Now trying to force 2021 emissions requirements on a 2005 GTO - nope sorry non starter. And once a car passes the 20 year mark - all bets are off. (or whatever line is historical/classic car in your state)
 

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On the whole privilege not a right topic and this entire issue whether we agree or not unelected government employees shouldn't be making that decision.

Elected politicians are corrupt and unelected government agency employees are even more corrupt.

Elected politicians should ultimately make these decisions and limit the agencies power.
 

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Have Bar, Will Travel
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I get how it works, I have all of these things. I'm just saying this entire "It's a privilege not a right" mindset is bullshit. What about eating what you want? Is that a privilege or a right? Because when the government says, "Now you can only eat this because we deem everything else as attributable to heart disease" are you going to say the same thing?




Of course, but that's not the point I was making.

no because as of right now I don't have to get a license to eat. Just like I don't have to have a license to buy a gun or a home for that matter. see the difference.
 

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I did start off with welcome to the gun rights fight.

Thing is I agree with cleaner air. So no I see no reason why you can't run cats. Now tuning the car I think is needed, I'm a huge fan of right to repair. Yes you should be able to retune your car so it runs as well as it can - with cats on and making emission regulations. PROVIDED IT IS STILL A LICENSED STREET CAR.

you take the plate off it and trailer it to a race track - roll whatever. which is why there are some cars that are sold from manufacturers as uncertified for street use. LaFerrari is one, that COPO camaro is one. there are a few.

You take a certified sold car like a 2021 mustang GT with PP2 - it meets emissions requirements today. tune the engine if you can (there isn't much left on the table that I know of). change the wheels, so some lightning mods, etc and go have fun. But when you decide it needs twins - or a big huffer on top - as you change your exhaust put bigger cats on to handle it all. I don't really have an issue with that.

Now trying to force 2021 emissions requirements on a 2005 GTO - nope sorry non starter. And once a car passes the 20 year mark - all bets are off. (or whatever line is historical/classic car in your state)
You're as bad as the guys that say I'm a second amendment supporter, but...

Can you relate now? I don't care about your opinion and you have no right to tell me what I can or can't do that has no effect on you what so ever. I'm not starting the car with the exhaust blowing into your house. We should shut down all aviation it's bad for the environment...so much more than my 2000 miles a year catless ethanol burner...LOL

Have a good day sir make sure you wear your mask when you go out.
 
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Worthless reject member
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If insurance and auto magnate had their way you wouldn't be able to fix your car either.
well, duh, right to repair is a huge issue!


How far do you want to go? I don't think this is going to be that enforceable. It will end up with - did you change the OEM emissions design yes or no. If yes didi you use an approved replacement yes or no. if no - here's your fine and get it fixed before you can have your license back.

that's about as far as I think it will go. Does that mean you can't buy a cat less exhaust for your new jeep rubicon - yes it does. Can you potentially get a modified exhaust setup with bigger muffs and a high flow cat - yes you can.

And here's another thing missing here. OK so you can't buy a stainless works exahust without cats for your ____.

ON the tuning from the big issue I have read about so far is the ability to turn off emissions controls - again here I'm OK with that. I mean golly dodge made a factory car that met 2016 emissions standards punching more than 700 HP out.

Biggest issues I see is the new cars with the cats in the manifolds, ya'll probably don't have one yet but they are out there.
bullcrap. once they are done with manufacturers, there is nothing to say they won't come after individuals.

Also, just from working with the GTO, we know even aftermarket cats can set off a CEL. Car manufacturers have the resources for R&D while your small time aftermarket parts shop does not. They will either need to design parts that meet federal requirements or drown in fines.

The problem here, buddy, isn't clean air or 'ohnoweguncrycozourcarswontbeloudandwontsmellboohoo." it's going to murder the industry.
 

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The way some people "think" and turn their heads the other way....thinking it wont affect them in some way....makes me sick. So what IF IT DOESNT AFFECT YOU...do you not care about your fellow American who built their livelihood upon racing, modding, selling parts, owning a speed shop etc.....what about those that could/will falter and lose their business? fuck em right? Dont affect you...so dont care...what a shit bag way of thinking. This shit goes WAY deeper than being discussed here.
say they do outlaw tuning. do you not think its possible they could force manufacturers to lock ecm? or force hp tuners, efi live to not do certain things OR even shut down completely?
 

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cough C8 cough
and eventually it'll get cracked....but then they may hit up the source and come down on them. These shitbag politicians are trying to neuter this country in every way they can.
 

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The Entenmann's Shim-Sham
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you sir, are incorrect. here's part of it....and you think its going to stop at just those parts, you are sadly mistaken.

  • Street vehicles—cars, trucks, and motorcycles—can't be converted into racecars according to the EPA.
So, where is the link to the regulation from the EPA stating exactly this?

  • The EPA has announced that enforcement against high performance parts—including superchargers, tuners, and exhaust systems—is a top priority.
high performance PARTS......including superchargers, tuners (o that will effect most of us..)
and saying INCLUDING does not mean just those parts.

heres the link Recognizing the Protection of Motorsports Act (RPM Act)


ALSO>>>DO NOT ASSUME IT WONT AFFECT US BECAUSE IT MOST CERTAINLY WILL>>>>these idiots classify our "streetcars" as a racecars.
Where is the link to this statement from the EPA?

You just provided a link to SEMA's website containing their interpretations of the EPA's intentions.
 

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So, where is the link to the regulation from the EPA stating exactly this?



Where is the link to this statement from the EPA?

You just provided a link to SEMA's website containing their interpretations of the EPA's intentions.
Heres the link to epa's website. Keep in mind, you have to actually comprehend what they are saying. The wording they use might be a little confusing for you. But to sum it up for you, all devices which alter emissions on vehicles are targeted.
Let go down the line of what that means.
Do these modifications alter the original emissions?
engine swap (yes)
stroker engine (yes)
supercharger (yes)
turbo (yes)
headers (yes)
tuning (yes)
exhaust (yes)
air intake (yes)

I could keep going........

 
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