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My other car has wings
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
About ready to pull the trigger on the Procharger order for my 2006. Even though I'm only planning 7-8 PSI at 6500 RPM I'm going to opt for the D1SC and Race intercooler due to the typically high ambient temps here in NC. My target is 550 RWHP (currently at 400). Using some of the equations I've seen floating around on the website I have come up with a requirement for at least 51# injectors (no plans to ever go to E85). So I was thinking either FAST 57# or DW 60# injectors or the ridiculously expensive ID725's. Also planning to go with the DW300C fuel pump. This is and must continue to be a daily driver. Any feedback/recommendations greatly appreciated.
 
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If i did it again, i would get an areomotive pump. I've had 50/50 luck with DW pumps. Although, i do really think the replacement fuel filter I used was not E85 friendly...
 

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Discussion Starter #3
What model Aeromotive pump? Was it a drop in replacement?
 

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I would opt for the D1x head unit over the D1sc. More efficient and lower iat's as a result which will result in slightly more power capability as well. People are reaching F1a power levels with the D1x. As far as the injectors and pump I started with the exact same dw300c and 60 lb DW injectors. That setup works great for what you are doing. The only advice I'd give is switch to a return setup with a boost referenced regulator. I had some issues with the stock regulator with that pump, but was able to tune around it. DW injector data is good and they will idle and drive great with their data. The only reason I switched is because I went to E85 and still stuck with DW just moved up to 95 lb/hr injectors. I also switched to a Magnafuel 4303 pump and return setup at that time.
 

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Here is my setup now...I'm running the rails in series and the stock feed as a return this seemed like the simplest way to do it. Although most will tell you this is the wrong way to do it. I'm cam only ls1 at 14 psi on E85 and it's working very well. I do believe my IDC is higher than it should be. I don't know if it's because of the rails being in series or something else yet. I'm going to use an aem 30-2130-100 sender in place of my liquid filled gauge so I can log fuel pressure with hptuners so I can get a better idea of what the issue may be. I still want more boost, but I'm already at 85% idc with the 95's.


 

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My other car has wings
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Discussion Starter #7
No you've got me concerned.....I really didn't want to have to go boost referenced and return flow. Any chance I can avoid that by staying at 6-7 psi? What did you have to do to 'tune around' the regulator problems?
 

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No you've got me concerned.....I really didn't want to have to go boost referenced and return flow. Any chance I can avoid that by staying at 6-7 psi? What did you have to do to 'tune around' the regulator problems?
It's not related so much to the amount of boost you are running. It's that much fuel flow over powering the regulator at idle so you have higher than 58 psi at idle. Then when you stand on it you get a pressure drop because the regulator is so far from the rails. The pressure then climbs back up as the pressure has plenty of flow capability for what you want on pump gas. The issue you may or may not have is vapor lock on the hottest summer days in stop and go traffic with a non return system because you are heating the fuel in the rails just sitting there for long periods of stop and go. So the tune around for pressure changes that I just mentioned is simply accounting for it in the VE table. Not an issue at all there just be aware that is what is happening. Some people run high flowing pumps with stock regulators without issue, but mine caused high pressure at idle which was my main issue I had with it in summer temps in long periods of idle/low throttle. When I decided to go to a boost referenced return system to solve this problem it also made sense to go ahead and switch to E85 and size everything accordingly. Oh and then of course it just made sense to up the boost..LOL...the correct answer is always more boost!
 

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My other car has wings
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Discussion Starter #10
It's not related so much to the amount of boost you are running. It's that much fuel flow over powering the regulator at idle so you have higher than 58 psi at idle. Then when you stand on it you get a pressure drop because the regulator is so far from the rails. The pressure then climbs back up as the pressure has plenty of flow capability for what you want on pump gas. The issue you may or may not have is vapor lock on the hottest summer days in stop and go traffic with a non return system because you are heating the fuel in the rails just sitting there for long periods of stop and go. So the tune around for pressure changes that I just mentioned is simply accounting for it in the VE table. Not an issue at all there just be aware that is what is happening. Some people run high flowing pumps with stock regulators without issue, but mine caused high pressure at idle which was my main issue I had with it in summer temps in long periods of idle/low throttle. When I decided to go to a boost referenced return system to solve this problem it also made sense to go ahead and switch to E85 and size everything accordingly. Oh and then of course it just made sense to up the boost..LOL...the correct answer is always more boost!
So this makes the case for using the fuel pump voltage booster which is usually activated based on boost level....instead of adding more basic pump capacity?
 

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My other car has wings
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Discussion Starter #11
All this talk makes me want another procharger.


Ugh.
I promise I will take lots of pictures and start an installation thread so that you feel like you are actually doing the install.....LOL
 

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There a number of fuel injector size calculators online to get you in the ballpark. Aim for 80% duty cycle. 60#'s would more than enough and are still easy enough to tune for good idle manners. Fuel systems are a bit more complicated. A quality sized, full return system makes tuning a boosted application a lot easier.
 

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Super easy and simple!
 

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So this makes the case for using the fuel pump voltage booster which is usually activated based on boost level....instead of adding more basic pump capacity?
No...replacing the pump is the better option in my opinion and adding the voltage booster still doesn't solve the problem caused by having the regulator in the rear instead of after the rails with a return. What you are wanting to do with the dw300c and 60 lb injectors should work and I ran that exact setup. Just be aware it isn't ideal.
 

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My other car has wings
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Discussion Starter #15
No...replacing the pump is the better option in my opinion and adding the voltage booster still doesn't solve the problem caused by having the regulator in the rear instead of after the rails with a return. What you are wanting to do with the dw300c and 60 lb injectors should work and I ran that exact setup. Just be aware it isn't ideal.
Understood, I think I will start there and see how the tuning and fuel flow/pressure situation shakes out. Every mod I have done so far is a process, meaning there are basically no one and dones.....there is always something that gets affected that you didn't plan on but no regrets so far.
 

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No you've got me concerned.....I really didn't want to have to go boost referenced and return flow. Any chance I can avoid that by staying at 6-7 psi? What did you have to do to 'tune around' the regulator problems?

AEROMOTIVE drop in 325 or 340 will work well at 6-7 psi. even at 8-9...then youll run into issues with sucking the bucket dry below 1/2 a tank. no idle problems, about 62 psi at idle with the stock bucket and 70 psi at idle with the 8.1 bucket. I tuned for it in my VE
60lbs siemens dekas idle well. and will work good up to at least 13psi (thats where i was and they were enough). I would be willing to sell mine and give you the correct injector data. I'm building a new motor right now and will soon need 80's so while my car is down, i could turn the 60's loose.
 

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My other car has wings
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Discussion Starter #17
AEROMOTIVE drop in 325 or 340 will work well at 6-7 psi. even at 8-9...then youll run into issues with sucking the bucket dry below 1/2 a tank. no idle problems, about 62 psi at idle with the stock bucket and 70 psi at idle with the 8.1 bucket. I tuned for it in my VE
60lbs siemens dekas idle well. and will work good up to at least 13psi (thats where i was and they were enough). I would be willing to sell mine and give you the correct injector data. I'm building a new motor right now and will soon need 80's so while my car is down, i could turn the 60's loose.
PM sent on the injectors
 

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Good example of my point as to why a boost referenced setup is the correct way to go. In the above example he had 70 psi at idle and most likely saw a pressure drop when boost came in then it would catch back up to probably be closer to the base gm 4 bar pressure of 58 at wot. I've been there and seen the same thing. With a boost referenced setup at 8 psi depending upon vacuum at idle with a gm 4 bar base pressure you could idle around 51 psi then at wot in boost with 8 psi be at 66 psi. So with the dead head setup with the regulator in the rear you have the opposite of what you want which is higher pressure at idle and lower pressure at wot as well as possible dips in between when demand escalates suddenly.
 

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My other car has wings
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Discussion Starter #19
Good example of my point as to why a boost referenced setup is the correct way to go. In the above example he had 70 psi at idle and most likely saw a pressure drop when boost came in then it would catch back up to probably be closer to the base gm 4 bar pressure of 58 at wot. I've been there and seen the same thing. With a boost referenced setup at 8 psi depending upon vacuum at idle with a gm 4 bar base pressure you could idle around 51 psi then at wot in boost with 8 psi be at 66 psi. So with the dead head setup with the regulator in the rear you have the opposite of what you want which is higher pressure at idle and lower pressure at wot as well as possible dips in between when demand escalates suddenly.
Agreed, after thinking about it for a while I'm pretty much convinced I'll do the boost reference setup.
 

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If I wanted the hp goal and knew for a fact id never turn it up, Id do something like deka 60's or 80's and an aem 320.
And if doing the whole fuel setup, id prolly use run a 6an line for feed or return. No need to go bigger at that goal. But doing bigger and going to a 42~ base pressure would be ideal.
 
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