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I'm looking at upgrading the wires and noticed a lot of people using different types. I read this from the Magnecor web site that talks about the real issue of wire - that low resistance is not what's important. I'm guarded as to the artical coming from them but it makes sense.

So, two questions to those more experienced than I,
1) do you agree or think it's BS.
2) Is $98 for a set of (KV85 8.5mm) wires too much?

Thanks
 

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mlc said:
I'm looking at upgrading the wires and noticed a lot of people using different types. I read this from the Magnecor web site that talks about the real issue of wire - that low resistance is not what's important. I'm guarded as to the artical coming from them but it makes sense.

So, two questions to those more experienced than I,
1) do you agree or think it's BS.
2) Is $98 for a set of (KV85 8.5mm) wires too much?

Thanks
I didn't read that whole article yet, but I paid $300 for wires (Nology.com) so $98 does not seem like much to me.
 

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ok so I read the rest and I see where they put the Nology wires down........well whatever..... I know since I have installed them I have gotten better gas mileage.....it started at 3-4 mpg better but now is settled into about 2mpg and the engine feels better.....now I know some will say that is all mental or where are the proven results....I don't care I got my money back already in the gas mileage. I know some doubt this actually being true but I dont care. I would always be skeptical about what the company writes about how great their product is. I asked around and read a bunch of things about the wires before I bought them.
 

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Heck I just paid $90ish for good quality wires for my 96 V6 Jimmy.

Somehow $98 seems like too little for the LS1
 

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Stay away from Magnacore's. I've had to replace two sets on two LS1 cars that due to the wire being a tad too short therefore acting like a spring, kept unbooting from the plugs, therefore arching within the connector, therfore shorting out the wire, therefore making it a useless piece of rubber and metal.

At the time, they had the lowest resistance per foot, but the fitment issues, I went back to MSD or Taylors.
 

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Huntress said:
Heck I just paid $90ish for good quality wires for my 96 V6 Jimmy.

Somehow $98 seems like too little for the LS1
That's because the wires for the 4.3L V6 are much longer, and in varying sizes to reach from the distributor down around the back of each engine bank, and down to their appropriate cylinders.

The LS1 may use two more wires, but they are all even length (about a foot long total) as such much easier and cost effective to produce, which in turn costs the consumer less.
 

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Dbluegoat said:
ok so I read the rest and I see where they put the Nology wires down........well whatever..... I know since I have installed them I have gotten better gas mileage.....it started at 3-4 mpg better but now is settled into about 2mpg and the engine feels better.....now I know some will say that is all mental or where are the proven results....I don't care I got my money back already in the gas mileage. I know some doubt this actually being true but I dont care. I would always be skeptical about what the company writes about how great their product is. I asked around and read a bunch of things about the wires before I bought them.
You're seeing a mileage improvement because more electrical energy is being sent to the final "end user", the spark plug, which in turn ignites the air/fuel mixture more thoroughly. A more thorough ignition of the A/F mixture A) creates more power B) Improves emissions and C) improves fuel economy.
 

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CMNTMXR57 said:
That's because the wires for the 4.3L V6 are much longer, and in varying sizes to reach from the distributor down around the back of each engine bank, and down to their appropriate cylinders.

The LS1 may use two more wires, but they are all even length (about a foot long total) as such much easier and cost effective to produce, which in turn costs the consumer less.
All of which is true... makes total sense... the Jimmy is running fabulously too. :D
 

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Those 4.3's will run forever with the right love. They are after all a small block Chevy V8 with two cylinders lobbed off.

I've had many.
 

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I don't get the wires thing...

Ohms law. V/R=I (Voltage devided by resistance gives you the current)

That spark gap is definatly in the Mohms. But just to be conservative and give the wires a fighting chance in hell at making a difference lets say the gap resistance is just 1 Mohm. And I don't know the actual voltage but I'm guessing that it's around 50Kv. So....

50,000/(1,000,000+300)=.049985004 or 49.985ma (300 ohms for the stockers)

Now lets be generous and give say the HP wires are 10 times better and are only 30 ohms....

50,000/(1,000,000+30)=.0499985 or 49.9985ma (30 ohms for the HP wires)

49.9985-49.985=.0135 and if I'm doing it in my head right that's 13.5 micro amps difference.

Think about it, your lopping off a few hundred ohms that's in series with (more than likely) several Mohms. And my example is being kind to the wires, the spark gap is probably several Mohms, not just 1. If it's 10Mohms that drops the difference in current by a factor of almost 10.

Until I get a good electronics orienented explanation of this I going to keep on thinking it's a bunch of hooey because the wire resistance is SOOOOO small in comparison to the resistance of the spark gap that changing it a few hundred ohms won't make much difference to the load seen by the source.

Anyone care to straigten me out on this, I'm an electronics geek not a greese monkey. (although I play a greese monkey at work sometimes :))
 

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Yeah, in theory, different plug wires should not make much of a difference. But when I put NGK TR55 plugs and Taylor 10.4mm wires on my GTO, I PERCEIVED a noticeable difference in performance. Maybe it was just a rationalization to justify the expense.

Ohm's Law applies well to simple DC circuits, but the ignition coil, wires, plugs, etc. are more dynamic (i.e. inductive reactance and other phenomena.) I'm not a mechanic and I have no idea how that whole process works. I would need a complete understanding of the circuit before applying specific formulas.
 

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You're right it is more complicated than that. But with the numbers given a generalization can be made here. That generalization is that the wires are a very small part of the load. Changing their resistance a few hundred ohms doesn't seem like it would make much difference.

And don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that it doesn't, a lot of people swear by them. I just don't understand WHY it might work.
 

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Ok, two things here.

Once the spark gap is bridged, you basically have ionized air and the resistance is only what is needed to continue the reaction. So saying that it is a megaohm resistance is true only in the unfired state. Once fired, the resistance drops substantially.

Second, realize that what you are dealing with isn't a current as much as it is a static discharge from the coil. The laws and the rules change a bit, but not THAT much. We are talking a REAL quick wham of electrons.

That ALL said, dropping the resistance in half, isn't going to make a serious against a *48,000* VOLT spark. (The above post with all the math shows the difference of how little of a change it will make)

Buy wires because they look good, they'll hold up under the hood, or they've got the length you need to play the games you want to, not for the resitance.
 

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I'm not a physicist, chemist, engineer, or whatever, I simply know it works time and time again and that's all I care about. :)
 

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rocoop said:
I don't get the wires thing...

Ohms law. V/R=I (Voltage devided by resistance gives you the current)

That spark gap is definatly in the Mohms. But just to be conservative and give the wires a fighting chance in hell at making a difference lets say the gap resistance is just 1 Mohm. And I don't know the actual voltage but I'm guessing that it's around 50Kv. So....

50,000/(1,000,000+300)=.049985004 or 49.985ma (300 ohms for the stockers)

Now lets be generous and give say the HP wires are 10 times better and are only 30 ohms....

50,000/(1,000,000+30)=.0499985 or 49.9985ma (30 ohms for the HP wires)

49.9985-49.985=.0135 and if I'm doing it in my head right that's 13.5 micro amps difference.

Think about it, your lopping off a few hundred ohms that's in series with (more than likely) several Mohms. And my example is being kind to the wires, the spark gap is probably several Mohms, not just 1. If it's 10Mohms that drops the difference in current by a factor of almost 10.

Until I get a good electronics orienented explanation of this I going to keep on thinking it's a bunch of hooey because the wire resistance is SOOOOO small in comparison to the resistance of the spark gap that changing it a few hundred ohms won't make much difference to the load seen by the source.

Anyone care to straigten me out on this, I'm an electronics geek not a greese monkey. (although I play a greese monkey at work sometimes :))
Well, being a chemical engineer I'm certainly not an expert to clarify this completely - but the resistance of any conductor goes up with an increase in temperature. The increases you calculate will be magnified due to the resistances increasing due to higher temp's in the engine compartment. You also will generate less heat internally in the copper due to better current flow, so you will keep the temps down there too.
Also some of the gains to be had are due to better shielding / insulation keeping that heat away from the copper in the performance wires over the stock ones.
Dan
 

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Dan, I defer to your expertise as a chemical engineer, but in my experience in the electronics industry I have observed that resistance is inversely proportional to temperature (i.e. temperature goes up, resistance goes down.) This, of course, may be relative to the device in question (i.e. thermistors?) Your observation has sparked a vigorous debate here in the office. :D
 

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Well, I double checked a couple of websites online to verify my thinking - but they all said that the resistance increases for copper as the temperature increases. If I get a chance I'll triple check some of my reference manuals here at work...
Dan
 

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Oh, I don't doubt your statement. Consider that many electronic resistors are "carbon film", which may have different thermal characteristics than metal (i.e. copper.) It's just that when I read your statement I was thrown, based on my own experience. The jury is still out, even here. There's a combined 70 years of electronics experience in my "cubicle aisle" and the three of us still can't agree. :D
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Great talk.
Thanks to all.
Did anyone get the point about the "skin effect"? Keep in mind that this sparks is really AC current and Ohms Law goes out the window. You need to consider capacitance also. I've read about skin effect before and it's beyond what I learned in school. I know that people spend outrageous amounts of money on speaker wire to reduce the skin effect.

Tiggerfan, I would be interested in more about the resistance when the spark occurs. If the 'effective' resistance at that time drops then the resistance/capacitance (impeadance) of the wire would have more impact. But what?

Also, another point of the article was the affect of improper shielding for EMI. Has anyone considered the 'gremlins' that some of us have may be caused by EMI? It would be interesting to keep this in mind as we change from factory wires to after market stuff.
 

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Amazingly enough I work in EMI/EMC compliance for DoD and it would not surprise me in the least to find that the gremlins are EMI related. A lot of the things I read about (thankfully I've only experienced one small problem) scream EMI. I know all about the military standards and some about the commercial aircraft standards, but I know nothing of what goes on for testing and compliance of commercial vehicles. Perhaps NHTSA knows something about this...Hmm...
 
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