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2006 Pontiac GTO
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Discussion Starter #1
Hey guys. I don't have a lot of posts on the forum, but I use this along with ls1tech as a guide at times to see what people have tried and had work in certain situations. I figured I would give a post on my build and some problems and success I've had over the course.

So it all started in October of last year, the wife and I were out for our anniversary in the car. A Challenger R/T made a u turn and messed with me the entire way down this street. My car at the time was stock, cold air, cat back, new clutch and short throw. The basics. We destroyed that mans soul that night and in doing so, I destroyed my engine. :LOL::ROFLMAO:

After tearing the motor apart, I found that I ate 3 rod bearings and I needed to rebuild. My decision was made with building a stroker motor. So, I brought my block to Scoggin Dickey Raceshop where Alan and his team assembled the short block for me. Callies Compstar 4" crank, Callies Compstar H beam rods, Wiseco 4.005" pistons, all forged. Along with the machine work and balancing, the work was excellent and Alan has answered a few of my calls with questions and happily answered them. I don't know about your site sponsors and such, but it's just the truth and there are engine shops everywhere.

I decided I'd build the car with aftermarket casting heads, custom cam and such. So I went with a set of Frankenstein M311 heads with the upgraded exhaust inconel valve and .700 lift springs from PAC. After speaking with Cammotion cams, I had a custom grind 240/252 .621/.604 114+4 LSA cam. I got it in the 8620 core and where it may be overkill, everything I wanted to do with this motor I wanted overkill and added insurance. Say what you will, opinions are like assholes, everyone has one. But its money well spent in my book and to me that's all that matters. Sealed up with a set of Cometic .040" head gaskets and ARP2000 head studs, I was ready to make some measurements.

I ordered from JEGS a valve compressor tool because I needed to check my radial valve, piston to valve and push rod length. When the product for an LS3 head came in, I had to do work to the tool because the aftermarket casting really messed some things up. Of course, to be expected because they will move things around to make ports larger, etc. I had to bore the hole out on the tool to allow for the tool to fit flush with the floor inside the head. Once that was done, it removed the springs pretty easily. I threw in my checker springs and onto measuring. The radial valve was great as the valve reliefs on the piston were great. After figuring out how to measure piston to valve clearance, I found out that I had a TON of clearance. Like scratch your head ton but it works. Then the shit storm begins to hit. When I go to measure for pushrod length, I had already ordered a set of COMP 1.8 rockers so I could amplify that lift of the cam to somewhere in the neighborhood of .657/.639. Where I could measure for the length, my borehole clearance of the pushrod was almost non existent. After calling FED, they said that those heads will not work with a 1.8 and I need to roll with a 1.7. I got some 1.72 roller rockers from Texas Speed and go to check the clearance. FED also says to go no smaller than a 3/8" .120 wall rod. Thats not happening. Had Manton set me up with a 11/32" .120 series 5 rod and then I finally defeated the pushrod saga.

I began to assemble the long block and the assembly went very smooth. Almost too smooth for nothing never goes this smooth and I knew I was about to have a fight on my hand at some point. I got a ported LS3 intake from Blueline Performance and some FAST 50lb injectors. I dropped the motor in, threw in some Kooks Headers which are a royal pain in my ass and got everything assembled. Along with the motor upgrades I threw in an aftermarket DW300C fuel pump to feed the motor. Something about this car though, the previous owners were not nice to it at all and I've had to do a lot of work I should have never had to do to it. All the panels were off the car at one point and were not put back on properly. Everything on the car that was worked on has been "rigged" to work and not properly installed and I've had a ton of cleanup and fixes to where the car wasn't a total disaster. As you all may know, not everyone should be able to work on a car.

It came to start day, got everything installed and wouldn't you know it, it started almost instantly and with the SLP loudmouth exhaust and it being 9:15 at night, I pissed off every neighbor within a 1 block radius of my home. :D:ROFLMAO: But as stated before, all was too smooth.

The next morning I went to start the car to put a good heat cycle on it and wouldn't you know, the car wouldn't start. I check the fuel rail for pressure and there wasn't any. After removing the gas tank and checking, I come across something that I should have spotted when installing my new pump but didn't. The previous owners rigged the harness that goes into the top of the sending unit and expoxied one of the contacts into the top. Well, when I went to plug that back in I guess I broke the epoxy off and didn't get a good contact. The scary part, it was arcing on top of the fuel tank. :sick: I ordered a new harness and sending unit and am currently waiting for it to come.

The next day I decided I would rig the sending unit in a way where it didn't cause any safety concern and would allow a contact. I did that and wouldn't you know, the car started right up and ran. I got a really good heat cycle on it and started it a few times. Well, on to the next issue.

With aftermarket casting heads, the exhaust ports can be moved around too and in this case it appears that the ports were moved up a tad. This brought my headers up just enough for one of the primaries to come into contact with my starter. The started was an aftermarket Chinese pile of shit that came with the car and so I said fuck it and let it be. After 2 good heat cycles and about 8 starts, I went to start it and instead of the glorious chatter of compression blasting my exhaust pipes, I was introduced to my "fuck it" and "it" decided to fuck me instead. Rapid clicking and a electrical burn smell accompanied by smoke decided to greet me. So, in short, I'm also waiting on a starter to come in today. I'm sure with how smooth the project went with the motor, I'm due for another break in the near future. I have until Thursday of next week before I need to hit the dyno for a tune and hopefully header wrap around the starter and that one primary will insulate my new starter enough to where I don't fry the windings. I should have maybe dinged the header some in that spot to allow for non contact, but with how much taller the heads are than stock I'd have to lift the motor a solid 2-3" just to get the header back out of the car.

Another set back is with the MAP sensor. If any of you decide to do this kind of set up, you'll need to figure out a way to make the old LS2 MAP sensor work or make the LS3 style work. From what I've read, they are ranged differently but it appears a good tuner can manipulate it to run ok. I'm going to let my tuner decide as I purchased the LS3 style and still have my LS2 style installed.

All in all the car sounds meaner than hell when it does run and I can't wait to see how it performs. I know this is a long post, but if you stuck through all of it, laughed with me, at me, called me a name or wrote something down, I hope you enjoyed it at my expense and have a good 4th of July weekend. Cheers.
 

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TL;DR

Happy 4th though...
 

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Yes my name is Holden
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Greetings Brad & all; The goddess of Speed is challenging you. She does it to all us Car Nuts. And I would like you to post up your MAP choice after your dyno guy chimes in. I'm just starting an Up-date refresh & plan to include a Ls3 MAF & Throttle Body. So this info about the MAP should be in my brain & maybe included in my Up date? Ole' Bob.
 

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2006 Pontiac GTO
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Discussion Starter #4
Greetings Brad & all; The goddess of Speed is challenging you. She does it to all us Car Nuts. And I would like you to post up your MAP choice after your dyno guy chimes in. I'm just starting an Up-date refresh & plan to include a Ls3 MAF & Throttle Body. So this info about the MAP should be in my brain & maybe included in my Up date? Ole' Bob.
Yea, I’ll let y’all know what he says. If it’s just a throttle body upgrade and you’re not changing your intake manifold then you shouldn’t have to change it. They essentially do the same thing but from what I’ve read on the HP Tuners forums the LS2 is ranges different than the LS3.
 

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Hey guys. I don't have a lot of posts on the forum, but I use this along with ls1tech as a guide at times to see what people have tried and had work in certain situations. I figured I would give a post on my build and some problems and success I've had over the course.

So it all started in October of last year, the wife and I were out for our anniversary in the car. A Challenger R/T made a u turn and messed with me the entire way down this street. My car at the time was stock, cold air, cat back, new clutch and short throw. The basics. We destroyed that mans soul that night and in doing so, I destroyed my engine. :LOL::ROFLMAO:
the smurf? one race shouldn't make your motor blow. ya had other issues beforehand.

After tearing the motor apart, I found that I ate 3 rod bearings and I needed to rebuild. My decision was made with building a stroker motor. So, I brought my block to Scoggin Dickey Raceshop where Alan and his team assembled the short block for me. Callies Compstar 4" crank, Callies Compstar H beam rods, Wiseco 4.005" pistons, all forged. Along with the machine work and balancing, the work was excellent and Alan has answered a few of my calls with questions and happily answered them. I don't know about your site sponsors and such, but it's just the truth and there are engine shops everywhere.
did you ask them about accelerated piston skirt wear because of the stroker?

I decided I'd build the car with aftermarket casting heads, custom cam and such. So I went with a set of Frankenstein M311 heads with the upgraded exhaust inconel valve and .700 lift springs from PAC. After speaking with Cammotion cams, I had a custom grind 240/252 .621/.604 114+4 LSA cam. I got it in the 8620 core and where it may be overkill, everything I wanted to do with this motor I wanted overkill and added insurance. Say what you will, opinions are like assholes, everyone has one. But its money well spent in my book and to me that's all that matters. Sealed up with a set of Cometic .040" head gaskets and ARP2000 head studs, I was ready to make some measurements.
frankenstien is good stuff from what i hear.

I ordered from JEGS a valve compressor tool because I needed to check my radial valve, piston to valve and push rod length. When the product for an LS3 head came in, I had to do work to the tool because the aftermarket casting really messed some things up. Of course, to be expected because they will move things around to make ports larger, etc. I had to bore the hole out on the tool to allow for the tool to fit flush with the floor inside the head. Once that was done, it removed the springs pretty easily. I threw in my checker springs and onto measuring. The radial valve was great as the valve reliefs on the piston were great. After figuring out how to measure piston to valve clearance, I found out that I had a TON of clearance. Like scratch your head ton but it works.
better to have more than less.

hopefully you calculated (or found by trial and error) the crank degree position that has the of lowest clearance for both the intake and exhaust side. it's also better to use a spare lifter converted to a solid rocker, but you used checker springs, so you should be good on that.

There is also a .xlsx file out there that will calculate the PTV for you. You will need some extra cam specs from cammotion, and the builder specs for your heads. It is fairly accurate, however.

Then the shit storm begins to hit. When I go to measure for pushrod length, I had already ordered a set of COMP 1.8 rockers so I could amplify that lift of the cam to somewhere in the neighborhood of .657/.639. Where I could measure for the length, my borehole clearance of the pushrod was almost non existent. After calling FED, they said that those heads will not work with a 1.8 and I need to roll with a 1.7. I got some 1.72 roller rockers from Texas Speed and go to check the clearance. FED also says to go no smaller than a 3/8" .120 wall rod. Thats not happening. Had Manton set me up with a 11/32" .120 series 5 rod and then I finally defeated the pushrod saga.
if your roller rockers are adjustable, i would set them up for proper wipe on the valve tip. then you might need to order a different pushrod length, but you also might still be ok.

I began to assemble the long block and the assembly went very smooth. Almost too smooth for nothing never goes this smooth and I knew I was about to have a fight on my hand at some point. I got a ported LS3 intake from Blueline Performance and some FAST 50lb injectors. I dropped the motor in, threw in some Kooks Headers which are a royal pain in my ass and got everything assembled. Along with the motor upgrades I threw in an aftermarket DW300C fuel pump to feed the motor. Something about this car though, the previous owners were not nice to it at all and I've had to do a lot of work I should have never had to do to it. All the panels were off the car at one point and were not put back on properly. Everything on the car that was worked on has been "rigged" to work and not properly installed and I've had a ton of cleanup and fixes to where the car wasn't a total disaster. As you all may know, not everyone should be able to work on a car. It came to start day, got everything installed and wouldn't you know it, it started almost instantly and with the SLP loudmouth exhaust and it being 9:15 at night, I pissed off every neighbor within a 1 block radius of my home. :D:ROFLMAO: But as stated before, all was too smooth.

The next morning I went to start the car to put a good heat cycle on it and wouldn't you know, the car wouldn't start. I check the fuel rail for pressure and there wasn't any. After removing the gas tank and checking, I come across something that I should have spotted when installing my new pump but didn't. The previous owners rigged the harness that goes into the top of the sending unit and expoxied one of the contacts into the top. Well, when I went to plug that back in I guess I broke the epoxy off and didn't get a good contact. The scary part, it was arcing on top of the fuel tank. :sick: I ordered a new harness and sending unit and am currently waiting for it to come.

The next day I decided I would rig the sending unit in a way where it didn't cause any safety concern and would allow a contact. I did that and wouldn't you know, the car started right up and ran. I got a really good heat cycle on it and started it a few times. Well, on to the next issue.
Just remember that someone, somewhere is able to say such things about you. Hopefully said previous owner has learned from his mistakes. Also, buying used performance in general comes with a huge caveat for multiple reasons. It is a used car, 14-16 years old at this point. Modded or not, garage queen or not, it will have issues. I would not complain about the previous owner, i would just regret not buying new and keeping it stock if i didn't want any problems. You decided against both, so it is what it is. At least you get to pat yourself on the back for your problem solving abilities.

With aftermarket casting heads, the exhaust ports can be moved around too and in this case it appears that the ports were moved up a tad. This brought my headers up just enough for one of the primaries to come into contact with my starter. The started was an aftermarket Chinese pile of shit that came with the car and so I said fuck it and let it be. After 2 good heat cycles and about 8 starts, I went to start it and instead of the glorious chatter of compression blasting my exhaust pipes, I was introduced to my "fuck it" and "it" decided to fuck me instead. Rapid clicking and a electrical burn smell accompanied by smoke decided to greet me. So, in short, I'm also waiting on a starter to come in today. I'm sure with how smooth the project went with the motor, I'm due for another break in the near future. I have until Thursday of next week before I need to hit the dyno for a tune and hopefully header wrap around the starter and that one primary will insulate my new starter enough to where I don't fry the windings. I should have maybe dinged the header some in that spot to allow for non contact, but with how much taller the heads are than stock I'd have to lift the motor a solid 2-3" just to get the header back out of the car.
see comment above.

Another set back is with the MAP sensor. If any of you decide to do this kind of set up, you'll need to figure out a way to make the old LS2 MAP sensor work or make the LS3 style work. From what I've read, they are ranged differently but it appears a good tuner can manipulate it to run ok. I'm going to let my tuner decide as I purchased the LS3 style and still have my LS2 style installed.

All in all the car sounds meaner than hell when it does run and I can't wait to see how it performs. I know this is a long post, but if you stuck through all of it, laughed with me, at me, called me a name or wrote something down, I hope you enjoyed it at my expense and have a good 4th of July weekend. Cheers.
see above again.

also MAP? or MAF? Sounds like you mean the latter. No big deal. Tune it yourself or get it tuned.

Throughout this long saga, you didn't mention what lifters you chose. Or i missed it. Important. Stock or LS7 lifters don't like high spring pressures. They are ok with most moderate builds, but you should get better ones if you can. Or, a few other things. Timing setup? Oil pump? Did you set all of that up or did the shop that built the motor?

I will think of a few other things, but whatever. It's together now. Have fun with it.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
the smurf? one race shouldn't make your motor blow. ya had other issues beforehand.



did you ask them about accelerated piston skirt wear because of the stroker?



frankenstien is good stuff from what i hear.



better to have more than less.

hopefully you calculated (or found by trial and error) the crank degree position that has the of lowest clearance for both the intake and exhaust side. it's also better to use a spare lifter converted to a solid rocker, but you used checker springs, so you should be good on that.

There is also a .xlsx file out there that will calculate the PTV for you. You will need some extra cam specs from cammotion, and the builder specs for your heads. It is fairly accurate, however.



if your roller rockers are adjustable, i would set them up for proper wipe on the valve tip. then you might need to order a different pushrod length, but you also might still be ok.



Just remember that someone, somewhere is able to say such things about you. Hopefully said previous owner has learned from his mistakes. Also, buying used performance in general comes with a huge caveat for multiple reasons. It is a used car, 14-16 years old at this point. Modded or not, garage queen or not, it will have issues. I would not complain about the previous owner, i would just regret not buying new and keeping it stock if i didn't want any problems. You decided against both, so it is what it is. At least you get to pat yourself on the back for your problem solving abilities.



see comment above.



see above again.

also MAP? or MAF? Sounds like you mean the latter. No big deal. Tune it yourself or get it tuned.

Throughout this long saga, you didn't mention what lifters you chose. Or i missed it. Important. Stock or LS7 lifters don't like high spring pressures. They are ok with most moderate builds, but you should get better ones if you can. Or, a few other things. Timing setup? Oil pump? Did you set all of that up or did the shop that built the motor?

I will think of a few other things, but whatever. It's together now. Have fun with it.

You're absolutely right about the one and done. I hope the prior guys learned from their mistakes though.

As far as the skirt wear, I did not ask any of that. I pretty much told them what I want and let them do all the calculations and machine work. I'm sure there will be more than normal wear considering its not a normal displacement for the block but I'm not overly concerned about it.

The Frankenstein heads are some of the nicest I've ever seen. They are high quality especially for the price tag. Their customer service is also top notch as the phone never rang more than 2 times before someone picked up and they could answer the questions I threw at them.

I did just what you talked about when it came to piston to valve clearance. A lot of people say that you go 10 degrees before TDC and 10 degrees after TDC but I found the clearance to be tightest a ways away from that. I did write all my measurements down though for reference and am glad I did it that way.

The lifters I am using are the Morel 5290 link bar lifter. The rocker arms are non adjustable but I got the pushrod length right. Everything lines up and works great and from what I can hear there isn't much if any valve terrain noise. The timing set I used was a JP Performance billet timing set and I got a Melling high volume/high pressure oil pump. I set all of it up as well. Oil pressure on start up with the break in oil is at about 50 psi but once warmed up it drops to about 40. I think its more the break in oil I'm using and no so much the pump. I'll know for sure what the pump does when I have the regular oil in it.

The sensor I'm talking about is the Absolute pressure sensor in the intake manifold. The LS2 and LS3 use a different sensor. Either way, whatever the tuner wants is what I'll either install or leave in. The LS2 sensor is smaller and requires either teflon wrapping around the sensor or a 3/8" thin wall tubing to go over it and help seal it off. Kind of a janky deal if you ask me but it is what it is.

Thanks for the detailed response. I honestly wasn't sure that anyone would give a crap about my experience but I appreciate your thorough response.
 

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The skirt wear might be a big deal to you eventually, if you keep the engine long enough. I think they can do something to the end of the cylinder sleeve to keep it from slicing along the piston skirt, and use a skirt length and piston taper that's a little more friendly for the situation. Or just put longer sleeves in the block.

You mighy be able to still shim the rockers. Dunno.

I did not know that about the MAP sensor. Good to know if i ever do an LS3 top end.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
When I installed LS3 heads and intake in May, I ordered an LS2 map sensor seal and stretched it over the existing seal. I got the idea from one of the L92/LS3 threads, worked great for me.
Thats an excellent idea man. I’m going to try that out and see how it works. I bet it beats the 12-13 wraps of Teflon tape I used.
 

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Something I took away from your story is the starter/header proximity. You can't have the header touching, that needs a ding or two to get clearance. But when you're ready to wrap, consider a starter blanket rather than header wrap. The starter blanket is easier to manipulate, and is more removable than wrap. Especially if you're already replacing the starter. Just remember to loosely drape it over the starter before you put it in, then actually tighten it after you've made your electrical connections on the starter.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Something I took away from your story is the starter/header proximity. You can't have the header touching, that needs a ding or two to get clearance. But when you're ready to wrap, consider a starter blanket rather than header wrap. The starter blanket is easier to manipulate, and is more removable than wrap. Especially if you're already replacing the starter. Just remember to loosely drape it over the starter before you put it in, then actually tighten it after you've made your electrical connections on the starter.
Update on the starter. I received the new one that was an AC Delco original replacement and what’s crazy is that after market one that burned up was bigger. The AC Delco has about an inch between the starter and the header. I was happy about that. I still wrapped that one primary and the starter and header wrap just to be safe.

I also replaced the battery because why not. I had a 650 CCA battery and I went with a 725. So with all that said the car cranks over much better now.

I just took the car on a long cruise around the area I’m in and the car is doing great so far knock on wood. Oil pressure is solid and it stays a mark below halfway on the temp. I can’t wait for Thursday when I get the thing tuned and dynoed. I’m hoping for 500 rwhp. I think I’ll be close.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
what compression ratio did you go with?
I ended up at around 10.65:1. Slightly lower than stock but that’s due to the 72cc chamber on the heads and the +3 piston. Still has some good thump to it and my area only sees 91 octane for premium. I can get 100 at a sunoco station for $8 a gallon though.😒😏
 

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Discussion Starter #15
So my tuner liked what I did with the MAP sensor and today was tune day. It’s 106 degrees outside and 110 in the shop and it threw down 482hp and 451 torque. I think with a xair intake and 102 throttle body and a good day it’ll make over 500 easy. It’s a torque monster and feels awesome.
 
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