Are you sure the problem isn't the tight fit of the alignment dowels on the bellhousing? You will not just slide onto those dowels, they are a snug fit. If you have the trans within 1/4" of the bellhousing the input shaft is already in the pilot bearing. You just need to use the bolts to pull the trans onto the dowels. Snug down a bolt on alternating sides a few turns at a time.
Trans Alignment Woes
Am I missing something?
Brand new Tilton ST-246 install. Ram 03-013 alignment tool. Cannot for the life of me get the transmission to seat the last 1/4"-3/8". Slides in real easy through the splines, just can't seat the pilot bearing. Seems like everything is a touch low.
Alignment tool measures 0.585. Trans measures 0.589. Pilot bearing measures about 0.591-0.592. Seems like my brand new alignment tool is undersized? Assuming that gravity pulls the tool to the bottom of the bore, I've got about 2.5 thousands of interference between the pilot and the input. And with the twin disk I've got considerably more spline area and clamping force stopping it from self aligning.
I've tried reseating the clutch 6 times so far. 9hrs on my back under the car stopped being fun about 7hrs ago.
-Brian
Brand new Tilton ST-246 install. Ram 03-013 alignment tool. Cannot for the life of me get the transmission to seat the last 1/4"-3/8". Slides in real easy through the splines, just can't seat the pilot bearing. Seems like everything is a touch low.
Alignment tool measures 0.585. Trans measures 0.589. Pilot bearing measures about 0.591-0.592. Seems like my brand new alignment tool is undersized? Assuming that gravity pulls the tool to the bottom of the bore, I've got about 2.5 thousands of interference between the pilot and the input. And with the twin disk I've got considerably more spline area and clamping force stopping it from self aligning.
I've tried reseating the clutch 6 times so far. 9hrs on my back under the car stopped being fun about 7hrs ago.
-Brian
1 - 20 of 41 Posts
Can't get the bolts started... Not quite lined up well enough. And I'm not gonna risk cross threading them if the won't start by hand. Also I'm am currently unimpressed by both harbor freight trans jacks' ability to hold a T56 upright.
Tonight's plans include making a better cradle and buying really long bolts to cut the heads off and use as alignment rods.
-Brian
Tonight's plans include making a better cradle and buying really long bolts to cut the heads off and use as alignment rods.
-Brian
Probably not the best way to do it but the last time I installed a T56 I gave up on using my HF transmission jack and ended up just muscling it into place by hand. I've never had good luck with it sitting right on the jack to actually get the splines lined up and I've found just shaking the trans with it close enough usually gets the job done. The extra long bolts will probably help but don't be afraid to give the trans a good shake to get it home.Can't get the bolts started... Not quite lined up well enough. And I'm not gonna risk cross threading them if the won't start by hand. Also I'm am currently unimpressed by both harbor freight trans jacks' ability to hold a T56 upright.
Tonight's plans include making a better cradle and buying really long bolts to cut the heads off and use as alignment rods.
-Brian
I'm baffled by you both having trouble with the HF trans jack. I assume you have this one: 800 lb. Low Lift Transmission Jack If you are instead using their little red and white jack, it is a raging POS and should be thrown in the dumpster.
This jack is one of the best tool purchases I've ever made, made the clutch replacements on both my cars incredibly easy. Now, the Tremec does not have a flat bottom so it wants to roll around on the flat platform of the jack, but you have to move the little corner supports into spots to support the trans and lock them down and then you have to REALLY get the securing chain wrapped around it and pulled down very tight so the transmission doesn't shift on the platform. Once that is done it is just a matter of raising the jack and using the knobs to fine tune the orientation of the platform and the trans to get a straight even shot onto the bellhousing.
Squag must work out a lot if he can bench press these heavy ass transmissions in place by hand! I could never do that, but if you can that is a good way to go. I used to do that with the Muncie transmissions in my old cars, but these Tremecs weigh a lot more than a Muncie and I was younger and stronger back then, probably couldn't even do a Muncie by hand anymore.
This jack is one of the best tool purchases I've ever made, made the clutch replacements on both my cars incredibly easy. Now, the Tremec does not have a flat bottom so it wants to roll around on the flat platform of the jack, but you have to move the little corner supports into spots to support the trans and lock them down and then you have to REALLY get the securing chain wrapped around it and pulled down very tight so the transmission doesn't shift on the platform. Once that is done it is just a matter of raising the jack and using the knobs to fine tune the orientation of the platform and the trans to get a straight even shot onto the bellhousing.
Squag must work out a lot if he can bench press these heavy ass transmissions in place by hand! I could never do that, but if you can that is a good way to go. I used to do that with the Muncie transmissions in my old cars, but these Tremecs weigh a lot more than a Muncie and I was younger and stronger back then, probably couldn't even do a Muncie by hand anymore.
Lol definitely helps that I'm in good shape so there's that. It's easier to muscle in place with 2 people though needless to say. So my HF transmission jack doesn't have the adjustable ears on it like I guess they do now based on your link and trying to get a T56 to sit well on the flat plate of that jack and not slide off while installing is a huge PITA.I'm baffled by you both having trouble with the HF trans jack. I assume you have this one: 800 lb. Low Lift Transmission Jack If you are instead using their little red and white jack, it is a raging POS and should be thrown in the dumpster.
This jack is one of the best tool purchases I've ever made, made the clutch replacements on both my cars incredibly easy. Now, the Tremec does not have a flat bottom so it wants to roll around on the flat platform of the jack, but you have to move the little corner supports into spots to support the trans and lock them down and then you have to REALLY get the securing chain wrapped around it and pulled down very tight so the transmission doesn't shift on the platform. Once that is done it is just a matter of raising the jack and using the knobs to fine tune the orientation of the platform and the trans to get a straight even shot onto the bellhousing.
Squag must work out a lot if he can bench press these heavy ass transmissions in place by hand! I could never do that, but if you can that is a good way to go. I used to do that with the Muncie transmissions in my old cars, but these Tremecs weigh a lot more than a Muncie and I was younger and stronger back then, probably couldn't even do a Muncie by hand anymore.
If you can't get the bolts started either the transmission isn't lined up straight enough or it isn't pushed in as far as you mentioned. Point being, it really could be that you aren't yet getting the input shaft into the pilot bearing. The alignment rods will help, but if the clutch disc is still off center you will still have trouble. My Monster clutches have always lined up perfectly with the alignment tool they provide which is probably the same plastic piece you have already. But if you aren't getting the trans perfectly parallel with the bellhousing nothing will line up. It does help to let the engine sag down a bit on the motor mounts so the angle you need to achieve with the trans is a little easier to attain without hitting into the underbody of the car with the transmission.Can't get the bolts started... Not quite lined up well enough. And I'm not gonna risk cross threading them if the won't start by hand. Also I'm am currently unimpressed by both harbor freight trans jacks' ability to hold a T56 upright.
Tonight's plans include making a better cradle and buying really long bolts to cut the heads off and use as alignment rods.
-Brian
When I was putting the trans back in I ended up lowering the rear of the car a bit to line up everything and it plugged right in.
I used a modified motorcycle jack so there wasn't much for helping align the trans with it.
I used a modified motorcycle jack so there wasn't much for helping align the trans with it.
That cheap HF trans jack that you guys are ragging on worked well for two transmission R&Rs for me. The GTO being one and my Yukon being the other. Best $100 I spent since I didn’t have a second set of hands to assist me with either trans job. It is definitely not a raging POS in my book.
What I did do to help aid in lining the trans up was to go and buy longer trans to bellhousing bolts and cut the heads off and thread them in. This was huge in helping line the trans up. Also, a little grease on the dowels went a long way in aiding install and should help when it comes time to pull it again for a future LS7 clutch install.
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What I did do to help aid in lining the trans up was to go and buy longer trans to bellhousing bolts and cut the heads off and thread them in. This was huge in helping line the trans up. Also, a little grease on the dowels went a long way in aiding install and should help when it comes time to pull it again for a future LS7 clutch install.
I originally bought HF's little red and white jack. It broke trying to lift something well below its rated capacity. It also did not have the tilting/adjusting capability of the bigger one. It really just failed to do anything useful for me. Now the bigger one in the link I provided was a wonderful jack and made my trans removal and reinstallation really pretty easy.That cheap HF trans jack that you guys are ragging on worked well for two transmission R&Rs for me. The GTO being one and my Yukon being the other. Best $100 I spent since I didn’t have a second set of hands to assist me with either trans job. It is definitely not a raging POS in my book.
What I did do to help aid in lining the trans up was to go and buy longer trans to bellhousing bolts and cut the heads off and thread them in. This was huge in helping line the trans up. Also, a little grease on the dowels went a long way in aiding install and should help when it comes time to pull it again for a future LS7 clutch install.
Anyway, glad that little one worked for you. These transmissions are heavy hunks!
It definitely does not have the bells and whistles of the more expensive and most likely better trans jack. I didn’t even use the ratchet strap to secure the trans as it hampered me more than it helped, and this was on both transmissions I used it on. A couple of pieces of wood here and there helped balance and position it but the bolts with the heads cut off worked wonders. None the less, since I was working by myself with no help, that jack worked good for me twice.I originally bought HF's little red and white jack. It broke trying to lift something well below its rated capacity. It also did not have the tilting/adjusting capability of the bigger one. It really just failed to do anything useful for me. Now the bigger one in the link I provided was a wonderful jack and made my trans removal and reinstallation really pretty easy.
Anyway, glad that little one worked for you. These transmissions are heavy hunks!
depending on the type of twin disk, the clutch disks are already centered and don't need an alignment tool. what clutch are you using?
i bet you're just barely caught on the ridge of the pilot bearing.
possible the bearing was installed backwards? properly installed, there is a rounded bevel that is supposed to assist with entry.
all the same, sometimes transmissions re-installs can be a PITA. i've been through the same thing myself a few times. sometimes things just LOOK lined up from underneath the car... but aren't. keep at it, when frustrated or tired, leave it for tomorrow and try again.
i bet you're just barely caught on the ridge of the pilot bearing.
possible the bearing was installed backwards? properly installed, there is a rounded bevel that is supposed to assist with entry.
all the same, sometimes transmissions re-installs can be a PITA. i've been through the same thing myself a few times. sometimes things just LOOK lined up from underneath the car... but aren't. keep at it, when frustrated or tired, leave it for tomorrow and try again.
my horrible-frieght jack was designed for an automatic trans with a flat pan. if yours is anything like mine, i think you need something with a bevel of some sort to hold the T56 properly.Can't get the bolts started... Not quite lined up well enough. And I'm not gonna risk cross threading them if the won't start by hand. Also I'm am currently unimpressed by both harbor freight trans jacks' ability to hold a T56 upright.
Tonight's plans include making a better cradle and buying really long bolts to cut the heads off and use as alignment rods.
-Brian
I didnt even use a trans jack. One regular jack, two arms, and a leg sprawled out to get it lined up, ha.
I dont have any tips other than it isnt easy to push it together but it should go if it is lined up
I dont have any tips other than it isnt easy to push it together but it should go if it is lined up
For the sake of my sanity, I ended up doing house chores tonight instead of spending a 4th night lying under my car cursing a transmission.
Using the Pittsburg jack with tilt. The hook for the chain bent in the first hour.
I can get it to the point that the dowels are touching the bellhousing but just a couple thousands low. I'm using a Ram Clutches billet alignment tool. It did help alot versus the plastic ones, I've previously used. If the dowels are touching and I'm running the small pilot bearing, is that far enough to have actually engage it?
This is the 3rd T56 vehicle I've had, 1st twin disk. Never had one fight this much. I did alot of auto zone life time warranty F-body clutches in my 400rwhp, 4400lb Impala. Had it down to about 4hrs start to finish with the red/white jack.
-Brian
Using the Pittsburg jack with tilt. The hook for the chain bent in the first hour.
I can get it to the point that the dowels are touching the bellhousing but just a couple thousands low. I'm using a Ram Clutches billet alignment tool. It did help alot versus the plastic ones, I've previously used. If the dowels are touching and I'm running the small pilot bearing, is that far enough to have actually engage it?
This is the 3rd T56 vehicle I've had, 1st twin disk. Never had one fight this much. I did alot of auto zone life time warranty F-body clutches in my 400rwhp, 4400lb Impala. Had it down to about 4hrs start to finish with the red/white jack.
-Brian
If you can get the dowels lined up and oem bolts will start threading then you should be able to pull it on with the bolts.For the sake of my sanity, I ended up doing house chores tonight instead of spending a 4th night lying under my car cursing a transmission.
Using the Pittsburg jack with tilt. The hook for the chain bent in the first hour.
I can get it to the point that the dowels are touching the bellhousing but just a couple thousands low. I'm using a Ram Clutches billet alignment tool. It did help alot versus the plastic ones, I've previously used. If the dowels are touching and I'm running the small pilot bearing, is that far enough to have actually engage it?
This is the 3rd T56 vehicle I've had, 1st twin disk. Never had one fight this much. I did alot of auto zone life time warranty F-body clutches in my 400rwhp, 4400lb Impala. Had it down to about 4hrs start to finish with the red/white jack.
-Brian
Dont use longer bolts.
From experience I do feel like twin disks will fight you a bit more than a single disk but it should still go in without too much more of a fight.For the sake of my sanity, I ended up doing house chores tonight instead of spending a 4th night lying under my car cursing a transmission.
Using the Pittsburg jack with tilt. The hook for the chain bent in the first hour.
I can get it to the point that the dowels are touching the bellhousing but just a couple thousands low. I'm using a Ram Clutches billet alignment tool. It did help alot versus the plastic ones, I've previously used. If the dowels are touching and I'm running the small pilot bearing, is that far enough to have actually engage it?
This is the 3rd T56 vehicle I've had, 1st twin disk. Never had one fight this much. I did alot of auto zone life time warranty F-body clutches in my 400rwhp, 4400lb Impala. Had it down to about 4hrs start to finish with the red/white jack.
-Brian
my monster twin disk experience was magical.From experience I do feel like twin disks will fight you a bit more than a single disk but it should still go in without too much more of a fight.
I’m not sure if you are referring to my statement of using longer bolts so I want to clarify…Dont use longer bolts.
I bought longer bolts and cut the the heads off. I then threaded them in to the bell housing. This gave me instant studs to slide the trans up on to and get it lined up and seated properly. By doing it this way, I was able to wiggle and slide the trans in and get it seated 98% of the way by hand. I then removed the studs and put the factory bolts in and torqued it down. Easy enough, with no help and a no frills transmission jack.
If you can get the dowels lined up and oem bolts will start threading then you should be able to pull it on with the bolts.
Dont use longer bolts.
I think Sacrifice was stating that you shouldn't use longer bolts to draw the transmission in on the alignment dowels. Point being, if you can't get the transmission in far enough that the stock bolts can be started and then used to draw it onto the dowels it isn't in far enough and something is out of alignment, most likely the input shaft isn't yet started properly into the pilot bearing. If you were to use longer bolts to draw it in you could damage something. And I also suspect the longer bolts would bottom out before the trans is fully bolted to the bellhousing.I’m not sure if you are referring to my statement of using longer bolts so I want to clarify…
I bought longer bolts and cut the the heads off. I then threaded them in to the bell housing. This gave me instant studs to slide the trans up on to and get it lined up and seated properly. By doing it this way, I was able to wiggle and slide the trans in and get it seated 98% of the way by hand. I then removed the studs and put the factory bolts in and torqued it down. Easy enough, with no help and a no frills transmission jack.
1 - 20 of 41 Posts
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