LS1GTO Forums banner
21 - 40 of 42 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
91 Posts
Discussion Starter · #21 ·
Somehow I didn't notice that Bohmann part when looking for options, or didn't see a picture of what he does. The thermister in that link certainly didn't fail due to the temp, but hard to say what else was melting. I did order a couple of these ceramic protection tubes, Omega Ceramic Tubes the plain ones, but didn't pursue trying anything. I could certainly send you a couple of them if you wanted to try something.
508938

Getting further into the flow might help a bit more, but it felt like getting the quick response and being in the right neighborhood is most of the battle.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,810 Posts
I already soldered mine to the plug. How would the wires be insulated from each other in one of those?

I did see they offer an option for insulated wires #44105 but its 3x the cost almost.

I agree the quick response is the most benefit
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
91 Posts
Discussion Starter · #23 ·
Not sure about the wire insulation, that could be another reason I didn't go down that path :)
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,810 Posts
Ill try your route and see how it holds together after it dries and remeasure resistance. Always have the bohnman to fall back to
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
91 Posts
Discussion Starter · #27 ·
@Sacrifice

Just pulled my sensor out and it seems like the orange stuff is starting to get a little scrambled. I put in an order for your epoxied version from Bohman and I am hoping this will be the last time I need to touch this.
509299
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
8,916 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
91 Posts
Discussion Starter · #31 ·
JTRR, do you have an instagram. id like to talk with you as i have a very similar build.
I don't use instagram much, but PM me within the forum if you want and I'd be glad to respond. However, like Sacrifice said, I would recommend to just post what you're thinking about. This car and the TVS superchargers have been around for a while and many of the ideas and questions I ever think of have already been tried or addressed. This forum is way better than instagram or facebook at archiving information. But still lots of photos are gone and stuff goes obsolete or just hard to find so the guys that have been on here way longer than me can usually bridge that gap better than me.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,810 Posts
hes ^ been very helpful when i had questions and now theres a few of us on here that have the blower so it helps stimulate the conversations
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Well i wanted to see how your E85 set-up on a stock ls2 was going. Im trying to have it set up for e85 in the future with the DW 300c pump. I wanted to know if you have had your car dyno'd. also if you could shed some light on the difference in IAT's using e85 on your set-up. i appreciate the help. there are people running e85 with our gtos but few with your specific set-up which im emulating in a way.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
91 Posts
Discussion Starter · #34 · (Edited)
It's still a work in process and I hope to get my mail order tune done for gasoline and e85 over the next couple weeks, and dyno unlikely for a while so I don't have any real numbers. But I have learned a lot since I started this thread, and one thing is that it's possible to estimate how much fuel is needed for certain HP goals. My initial goals were 550ish RWHP on pump gas and take what I get on e85.

I have a spreadsheet set up to look at pump output data, so I added a few columns to calculate RWHP capacity of different pumps with gas and e85. I am using the ZR1 pump but I dropped in the DW300c manufacturer's data (probably will never be this good as installed) along with data I took personally with a setup in my garage (imperfect). The chart is below. These calculations very much rough estimates, but per Summit and other sources I have seen the main BSFC used as .6 for gasoline,.84 for e85. 15% drivetrain loss assumed between flywheel and rear wheel.

If I run a constant 58 psi at the rail, I can get to about 580 RWHP with e85 if I use the DW300C with the voltage booster in the maggie kit. If I run manifold the hp potential goes down further. Without the voltage booster it would drop somewhere below 550 RWHP

Others please correct my assumptions.

510375


Related to IAT, I recently upgraded to a Duspeed OTR and it's made a very noticeable reduction in temps over what I had previously but I haven't really looked at my old logs enough to quote any specific numbers.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Ok. this is super helpful. Im seeing with this graph that i will be able to make around 530-550 whp with a DW300c and not BAP. at that time IAT temps and injectors will be at the limit. (LS9 injectors). Looks like later with a boost-a-pump i can go to E85 and make a little more. Does your Duspeed work a lot better than the stock air-box? I like the look. thanks for the help.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,810 Posts
Ok. this is super helpful. Im seeing with this graph that i will be able to make around 530-550 whp with a DW300c and not BAP. at that time IAT temps and injectors will be at the limit. (LS9 injectors). Looks like later with a boost-a-pump i can go to E85 and make a little more. Does your Duspeed work a lot better than the stock air-box? I like the look. thanks for the help.
Yes the duspeed works much better. Expensive upgrade since the hx also has to be changed but im 100% glad i went with it vs the stock box
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
91 Posts
Discussion Starter · #37 · (Edited)
Ok. this is super helpful. Im seeing with this graph that i will be able to make around 530-550 whp with a DW300c and not BAP. at that time IAT temps and injectors will be at the limit. (LS9 injectors). Looks like later with a boost-a-pump i can go to E85 and make a little more. Does your Duspeed work a lot better than the stock air-box? I like the look. thanks for the help.
I drew the same conclusions originally, but then started to get fuel pressure data from HPtuners logging which changed my view of the problem.
  • First, with the stock system, your injectors would need to support your HP goals at 45-50 psi instead of 58 psi. (I didn't have this problem with my 1000 injectors) Adding a BAP doesn't change this.
  • Bigger injectors help, but but with the stock system the pressure drop is still there. I believe a skilled tuner can deal with this, but it likely takes more time to get correct/safe compared to other systems with steady pressure. There may have been a point here to make it work with the DW300c and the BAP, but i'm not sure because I decided to move my goals up beyond that and my tuner didn't want to deal with pressure drop of more than 5 psi.
  • With the DW300C and the BAP with the pump's ability to feed itself inside of the tank (aka the bucket or module) gets increasingly worse
  • You want some extra capacity in case something starts to degrade. Losing voltage to drive the pump is a common example due to the small wire size and corrosion over time both cause voltage drop.
The stock fuel system with the TVS2300 kits is just barely good enough to support pump gas with either a BAP or a pump upgrade, requiring another 30% or so for e85 doesn't seem reasonably achievable.

From there, start making bigger changes like getting a different regulator, moving the regulator to the rails, increasing line sizes, or all three. Many options have been tried, all with different compromises and costs. No perfect upgrade available that just drops in without cutting wires or running fuel lines.

IAT is the only thing I have that is measurable, and it's way better with the Duspeed than the stock or other solutions like the unit in my photos that just pulls in warm air through a fancier looking box. Otherwise I think there are some cheaper ways to get cool air from outside the engine compartment and I know one of them is called the "hardcore" solution. I went with the duspeed cause it looks cool.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,810 Posts
I drew the same conclusions originally, but then started to get fuel pressure data from HPtuners logging which changed my view of the problem.
  • First, with the stock system, your injectors would need to support your HP goals at 45-50 psi instead of 58 psi. (I didn't have this problem with my 1000 injectors) Adding a BAP doesn't change this.
  • Bigger injectors help, but but with the stock system the pressure drop is still there. I believe a skilled tuner can deal with this, but it likely takes more time to get correct/safe compared to other systems with steady pressure. There may have been a point here to make it work with the DW300c and the BAP, but i'm not sure because I decided to move my goals up beyond that and my tuner didn't want to deal with pressure drop of more than 5 psi.
  • With the DW300C and the BAP with the pump's ability to feed itself inside of the tank (aka the bucket or module) gets increasingly worse
  • You want some extra capacity in case something starts to degrade. Losing voltage to drive the pump is a common example due to the small wire size and corrosion over time both cause voltage drop.
The stock fuel system with the TVS2300 kits is just barely good enough to support pump gas with either a BAP or a pump upgrade, requiring another 30% or so for e85 doesn't seem reasonably achievable.

From there, start making bigger changes like getting a different regulator, moving the regulator to the rails, increasing line sizes, or all three. Many options have been tried, all with different compromises and costs. No perfect upgrade available that just drops in without cutting wires or running fuel lines.

IAT is the only thing I have that is measurable, and it's way better with the Duspeed than the stock or other solutions like the unit in my photos that just pulls in warm air through a fancier looking box. Otherwise I think there are some cheaper ways to get cool air from outside the engine compartment and I know one of them is called the "hardcore" solution. I went with the duspeed cause it looks cool.
is it the fuel pressure drop vs the increased pressure delta in boost? im sure the pressure delta plays a role in it causing the injectors to need to be open longer. i cant speak to this since i wont be running into the issue.

i can say on with the current LS9 injectors and still running too rich ive only seen 61% duty cycle for the stock pulley setup on my fuel setup
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
91 Posts
Discussion Starter · #39 ·
I forgot to include the opposing boost pressure, so would need to get required flow out the injectors to flow adequately at 40-45 psi (assuming 5psi boost) instead of the 45-50 psi. I'm outside of what I understand but time for back of the envelope swag anyway:
  • internet says to expect 30-40% (lets say 30%) more flow to make same HP with e85, so (your) 61% * 1.30 = 79% duty cycle at 58 psi for e85. So you should be able to swing it since you will see steady 58 psi output.
  • internet search for LS9 injectors shows about 25% less flow at 43 psi vs 58 psi, so take 79% / (1- 0.25) = 106% duty cycle at full flow for e85 if you also lost 15 psi (combined 5 psi boost + 10 psi pressure drop at rail)? in theory
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
I forgot to include the opposing boost pressure, so would need to get required flow out the injectors to flow adequately at 40-45 psi (assuming 5psi boost) instead of the 45-50 psi. I'm outside of what I understand but time for back of the envelope swag anyway:
  • internet says to expect 30-40% (lets say 30%) more flow to make same HP with e85, so (your) 61% * 1.30 = 79% duty cycle at 58 psi for e85. So you should be able to swing it since you will see steady 58 psi output.
  • internet search for LS9 injectors shows about 25% less flow at 43 psi vs 58 psi, so take 79% / (1- 0.25) = 106% duty cycle at full flow for e85 if you also lost 15 psi (combined 5 psi boost + 10 psi pressure drop at rail)? in theory
I Agree with you on the injectors. LS9 injectors aren't up for 550-600whp on e85. I know new injectors will be needed for that. will the DW300C be up for the task on a BAP is the real question. Id like to think it will be per your graph you put together. (thank you for that BTW)

I need the fuel pump to support 550whp on pump and 600whp on E85 with a BAP. thats my goal
 
21 - 40 of 42 Posts
Top