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She’s a beauty
Thank you sir. I’ve been pretty pessimistic in this thread to try and spur some thought about considering all options and the realization that these cars have a lot of issues. Having a car with this many issues while having nearly zero aftermarket support and a dwindling supply of used parts available is a very real concern. I’ve worked through most of those and replaced most of the weak links on mine including replacing the entire driveline and ecu lol.

Despite my pessimism I love the car. I’ve just reached a point that in order to run faster than low 6’s in the 1/8th where I’m currently at it gets pretty expensive and difficult with this platform. My goal is 5.90’s driven to and from the track and I’m within striking distance, but every tenth in the 1/8th gets very difficult now.
 

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eh, stock coyotes already runnin 11's brah. mahbe not wur u live.
The ones I’ve seen locally ran 8.2 - 8.4 in the 1/8th. So that’s 12.7 - 12-9ish in the 1/4. DA was 2000 that day. They just had a huge mustang day locally no one running 1/8th mile times that would translate to 11’s in the 1/4 with stock A10’s. Not that it isn’t possible, but certainly isn’t a common thing in any normal air. They like boost and respond very well to it. Very capable engines they have their own wheel hop and other problems though. I spent a good deal of time talking to coyote owners who have drag raced for many years with multiple cars. They are impressive, but certainly not limitless or the best thing out there. The fox bodies still dominate. The weight, suspension, and aftermarket support makes them the king of small tire budget drag racing.
 

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Don't own one but soon, 2005 Pontiac GTO, M6.
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Discussion Starter · #64 ·
Has your dad ever heard of the 5.7 LS6 405HP ZO6 Corvette motor? Of which the 04's have the same block. Just needs the 243's and the cam. GM shoulda done it that way in the first place.
he has, and at 18 I won't be able to afford those parts, nor do I want to do more work to the motor than cam headers and a catback lmao
 

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The ones I’ve seen locally ran 8.2 - 8.4 in the 1/8th. So that’s 12.7 - 12-9ish in the 1/4. DA was 2000 that day. They just had a huge mustang day locally no one running 1/8th mile times that would translate to 11’s in the 1/4 with stock A10’s. Not that it isn’t possible, but certainly isn’t a common thing in any normal air.
nah, that's bullcrap. in 2011 when they came out the very first one saw running was stock and was pumping out low 12's. new ones are much faster. your track must just suck. i don't know what else to tell you.

1/8th to 1/4 conversion tables don't always work well with IRS cars, either.
 

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Seriously?
2004 Pontiac GTO, LS1, 6 speed, Quicksilver/Black
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Has your dad ever heard of the 5.7 LS6 405HP ZO6 Corvette motor? Of which the 04's have the same block. Just needs the 243's and the cam. GM shoulda done it that way in the first place.
I plan on contacting a certain cam grinder in this thread to correct this problem on my 2004. It will not be the fastest car out there, but it will be my car.
 

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nah, that's bullcrap. in 2011 when they came out the very first one saw running was stock and was pumping out low 12's. new ones are much faster. your track must just suck. i don't know what else to tell you.

1/8th to 1/4 conversion tables don't always work well with IRS cars, either.
I can only comment on what I personally see at the track. I don’t doubt what you’re saying though. Unlike others I don’t repeat what I read on the internet or heard only what I’ve seen or experienced personally.
This brings up the point that same track same day tells the real story.
My friends that travel and run multiple tracks against the fastest no prep guys in the country do say our local track sucks. They say some tracks on no prep days are better than our local track. They do not prep the track on street car nights here. My 1/8th mile times multiplied by 1.55 are right on with 1/4 times even with irs. I did run 6.18 on this track on radials, but I’ve also ran 6.7 with more power and aborted runs due to blowing the tires off as well. It’s a tough track for sure. My buddy went 5.0x here on a 275/60/15 radial in a C5 driven to and from the track. He went to a different track and put the car on the rear bumper on accident with irs if that says anything about the difference in tracks. With a little suspension tuning to keep the front end down he immediately went 4.8 in worse air.
 

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he has, and at 18 I won't be able to afford those parts, nor do I want to do more work to the motor than cam headers and a catback lmao
Thats understandable. You will still need the supporting mods for the cam like a spring kit. Might as well do a new timing chain and maybe even oil pump while you are in there. Then you will probably need to upgrade suspension on a car this old unless it’s already done. Driveshaft would be nice as well and probably clutch.
Have you considered buying an already modded goat with a cam etc already done? You might get your best bang for the buck that way.
 

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Don't own one but soon, 2005 Pontiac GTO, M6.
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Discussion Starter · #69 ·
Thats understandable. You will still need the supporting mods for the cam like a spring kit. Might as well do a new timing chain and maybe even oil pump while you are in there. Then you will probably need to upgrade suspension on a car this old unless it’s already done. Driveshaft would be nice as well and probably clutch.
Have you considered buying an already modded goat with a cam etc already done? You might get your best bang for the buck that way.
I've considered it a bit, all depends on what I can find when I'm about to buy the car. If I can find one already modded, great, but if I can't, that's fine too. I've heard a lot about doing suspension work to the car, I know what way I would like to go with suspension on the car, start out with poly bushings, go with the rear coilover conversion, the Koni Sport cut a struts or Pedders Sport Ryder struts for the front, Wilwood brake conversion because I can buy the front and rear kits cheaper than just the front brembo's lmao. Before all of that though, I plan to go through whatever GTO I end up buying to make sure the most common issues are taken care of. Take it slow and take my time with it, make sure it's done right and to the best of my ability and making sure that there are as few issues as can be. I don't want to take the car overboard, but I obviously want to make it the best I can and the way I want it. So yeah, whether I can find a modded one or not, I'm probably gonna end up buying one and making it the best I can. I have some idea of the direction I want to go and I think that my goals are achievable, except maybe 10 second 1/4 mile but that's honestly fine by me, just the GTO is enough to make me happy.
 

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I've considered it a bit, all depends on what I can find when I'm about to buy the car. If I can find one already modded, great, but if I can't, that's fine too. I've heard a lot about doing suspension work to the car, I know what way I would like to go with suspension on the car, start out with poly bushings, go with the rear coilover conversion, the Koni Sport cut a struts or Pedders Sport Ryder struts for the front, Wilwood brake conversion because I can buy the front and rear kits cheaper than just the front brembo's lmao. Before all of that though, I plan to go through whatever GTO I end up buying to make sure the most common issues are taken care of. Take it slow and take my time with it, make sure it's done right and to the best of my ability and making sure that there are as few issues as can be. I don't want to take the car overboard, but I obviously want to make it the best I can and the way I want it. So yeah, whether I can find a modded one or not, I'm probably gonna end up buying one and making it the best I can. I have some idea of the direction I want to go and I think that my goals are achievable, except maybe 10 second 1/4 mile but that's honestly fine by me, just the GTO is enough to make me happy.
What rear coil overs are you looking at? Since you aren't focused on drag racing and want street handling as well it's a good idea to match the front and rear. If you do koni's up front you should probably do them in the rear if you do pedders than it's probably a good idea to do pedders in the rear also. The only true coil over I'm aware of for the rear is using the Gforce kit which is more suited to drag racing. You will need to address wheel hop especially with a manual trans. Drive shaft, cradle bushings, good spring/shocks or coil overs, differential mount bushing or aftermarket mount, control arm bushings, and heavy sway bar with poly bushings will most likely take care of it. Radius rod bushings and strut top bushings are needed if not done already.

Brakes aren't a bad idea at all. I actually had a wilwood kit on my car when I bought it, but I sold them to replace with stock brakes so I could run 15" wheels. Again different goals. Keep in mind 15" wheels don't clear larger brakes if you ever want to run a good drag tire in the rear you will be limited. I would address wheel hop immediately before anything else on the car honestly. Wheel hop will make the car much less fun for you so get that solved first thing if it doesn't already have the suspension mods to fix it. A better posi unit like a wavetrac, kaaz, or trutrac would be a high priority as well. I prefer the kaaz over all others, but I currently have a spool in mine. For your use any of the aftermarket posi units would be a better choice.

I may seem like an ass hole, but I'm not giving you bad info and actually want to see you succeed. I was raised ruff and have worked all my life in construction and factories with ruff crowds. We are hardest on the people we care about and want to see succeed.;) I was testing how bad you really want a GTO earlier and want to make sure you know you are accepting the role of the underdog which isn't a bad thing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #71 ·
What rear coil overs are you looking at? Since you aren't focused on drag racing and want street handling as well it's a good idea to match the front and rear. If you do koni's up front you should probably do them in the rear if you do pedders than it's probably a good idea to do pedders in the rear also. The only true coil over I'm aware of for the rear is using the Gforce kit which is more suited to drag racing. You will need to address wheel hop especially with a manual trans. Drive shaft, cradle bushings, good spring/shocks or coil overs, differential mount bushing or aftermarket mount, control arm bushings, and heavy sway bar with poly bushings will most likely take care of it. Radius rod bushings and strut top bushings are needed if not done already.

Brakes aren't a bad idea at all. I actually had a wilwood kit on my car when I bought it, but I sold them to replace with stock brakes so I could run 15" wheels. Again different goals. Keep in mind 15" wheels don't clear larger brakes if you ever want to run a good drag tire in the rear you will be limited. I would address wheel hop immediately before anything else on the car honestly. Wheel hop will make the car much less fun for you so get that solved first thing if it doesn't already have the suspension mods to fix it. A better posi unit like a wavetrac, kaaz, or trutrac would be a high priority as well. I prefer the kaaz over all others, but I currently have a spool in mine. For your use any of the aftermarket posi units would be a better choice.

I may seem like an ass hole, but I'm not giving you bad info and actually want to see you succeed. I was raised ruff and have worked all my life in construction and factories with ruff crowds. We are hardest on the people we care about and want to see succeed.;) I was testing how bad you really want a GTO earlier and want to make sure you know you are accepting the role of the underdog which isn't a bad thing.
I am looking at the Gforce rear coil over kit, since it's fully adjustable and would likely take care of a little wheel hop, but as you said, some of the bushings and a heavier sway bar and poly bushings is a going to do a better job at taking care of that. I believe I said earlier that I would like the car to be somewhat track oriented, but as I learn more about the car I stride further and further from that. I have been looking into trutrac posi units for the car, mostly because I've always been told to go with trutrac... lol. I appreciate that you would like to see me succeed with this car, and I never once found you to be an asshole, I understand the whole pushing me to see if it's really what I want. There are better cars than the GTO. I will admit that until the day I die. The older the goat gets, the worse it's technology actually is. So I'm fully accepting of the underdog title there. Plans could always change with the car, as I learn more about it, I start wanting to push it for drag times, but at the same time, as I learn more, I kind of just want to make it a stop light car. The wildwood's I'm looking into say "some 15 inch wheels will clear" I don't know that I ever plan on running a 15 inch in the back, a Nitto NT05R on a widened 18 was my plan, I know that's never going to be as good as a smaller rim with bigger side wall, as I'm sure you know the more side wall the more contact with the ground.

As I'm learning more, there's really no way to get the best of BOTH worlds out of these cars. It seems like you're either building for a drag car, or building for a track car. There really, to my knowledge, isn't any in between. With the Gforce coilover conversion, I lose some of the handling, with the wilwood's, I probably can't run an actual drag tire. So it's really a pick and choose kind of thing, but at the end of the day, as other people have said, I need to get the car, and to decide what I like about it and what I don't, and start to upgrade from there. Who knows, maybe the power is plentiful for me, and I just do the bushings, springs and heavier sway bar and call it a day. Maybe I don't. I'd love to be able to make this car %100 the way I want it, but I don't see that happening. And since I was raised by a guy that absolutely can't get enough straight line racing, that's probably the direction I'll take the car. Sacrifices are going to have to be made once I get the car, but I do have a general idea where I'm going with it thanks to you.

One thing I do know for sure about this car, is that when I do buy it, I'm definitely putting the Corsa Cat-back exhaust on it lmao.
 

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All the wheel hop on my car was eliminated when I changed to a higher rate rear spring. Simples swap out and good for 1.6x sixty footers on drag radials. The K.I.S.S. method does work.
 

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All the wheel hop on my car was eliminated when I changed to a higher rate rear spring. Simples swap out and good for 1.6x sixty footers on drag radials. The K.I.S.S. method does work.
Ive had two of these GTO’s. Both were autos. The first one never had wheel hop ever from day one stock suspension with heads/cam. I later did suspension work at the same time I did a 408 just to improve 60’ times. That car ran over 100 passes in the 10.2 to 10.3 range and 100 more 1/8th mile passes in the 6.5-6.7 range. Consistently 60’ in the 1.5-1.6 range on a MT street ss radial.
My current car has terrible wheel hop I tried two sets of rear springs, bushings, Koni shocks etc. It wasn’t until I did cradle bushings and Viking double adjustable shocks that I was able to completely eliminate it. I ran my pb 1.4x 60’ back in September of 2020. I took all of 2021 off due to work and parts availability. I just ran the car for the first time in over a year a few weeks ago. I have a good amount more power now. First pass I left off idle and just rolled into it and went 6.7x with a lazy 1.9x 60’. Second pass left a little harder and about 30’ blew the tires off and went sideways so I just coasted down. Only made those two passes so far this year.
My first car had a lot less power but was way easier to make work than my current car.
Point being none of these cars are the same.
 
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he has, and at 18 I won't be able to afford those parts, nor do I want to do more work to the motor than cam headers and a catback lmao
243/799 heads are $300, though I would look at picking up some 862s for $100 and having a machine shop do a valve job to install the stock valves from your 241s for a nice compression bump.
 

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Is that FWD?
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Has your dad ever heard of the 5.7 LS6 405HP ZO6 Corvette motor? Of which the 04's have the same block. Just needs the 243's and the cam. GM shoulda done it that way in the first place.
That is my setup. Stage III ported ls6 243 heads, cam , Fast 102lsx. So I guess I have Z06 GTO. Lol
 

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2004 Pontiac GTO, LS1, 6 speed, Quicksilver/Black
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I am looking at the Gforce rear coil over kit, since it's fully adjustable and would likely take care of a little wheel hop, but as you said, some of the bushings and a heavier sway bar and poly bushings is a going to do a better job at taking care of that. I believe I said earlier that I would like the car to be somewhat track oriented, but as I learn more about the car I stride further and further from that. I have been looking into trutrac posi units for the car, mostly because I've always been told to go with trutrac... lol. I appreciate that you would like to see me succeed with this car, and I never once found you to be an asshole, I understand the whole pushing me to see if it's really what I want. There are better cars than the GTO. I will admit that until the day I die. The older the goat gets, the worse it's technology actually is. So I'm fully accepting of the underdog title there. Plans could always change with the car, as I learn more about it, I start wanting to push it for drag times, but at the same time, as I learn more, I kind of just want to make it a stop light car. The wildwood's I'm looking into say "some 15 inch wheels will clear" I don't know that I ever plan on running a 15 inch in the back, a Nitto NT05R on a widened 18 was my plan, I know that's never going to be as good as a smaller rim with bigger side wall, as I'm sure you know the more side wall the more contact with the ground.

As I'm learning more, there's really no way to get the best of BOTH worlds out of these cars. It seems like you're either building for a drag car, or building for a track car. There really, to my knowledge, isn't any in between. With the Gforce coilover conversion, I lose some of the handling, with the wilwood's, I probably can't run an actual drag tire. So it's really a pick and choose kind of thing, but at the end of the day, as other people have said, I need to get the car, and to decide what I like about it and what I don't, and start to upgrade from there. Who knows, maybe the power is plentiful for me, and I just do the bushings, springs and heavier sway bar and call it a day. Maybe I don't. I'd love to be able to make this car %100 the way I want it, but I don't see that happening. And since I was raised by a guy that absolutely can't get enough straight line racing, that's probably the direction I'll take the car. Sacrifices are going to have to be made once I get the car, but I do have a general idea where I'm going with it thanks to you.

One thing I do know for sure about this car, is that when I do buy it, I'm definitely putting the Corsa Cat-back exhaust on it lmao.
There is an in between, a limit, once you realize the costs and what works and what doesn’t work on the GTO. It is not the best car to turn into a drag racer unless you go all out and are ready to spend some money to make it that way. It can be a great autocrosser if you are willing to spend the money to get it there.

What is the GTO the best at? In my opinion, a 450-600 rear wheel horse power car that does a little bit of everything pretty good. I spent $7k improving my suspension, tires and brakes. $2k of that was a Brembo brake kit. I don’t go any faster but I sure stop on a dime and the confidence at triple digit speeds is satisfying. After doing a simple re-torque of the front lug nuts which eliminated a vibration, my joy ride on Sunday morning made me really appreciate the full suspension and Michelin tires on it. I found the lug nut torque tip just by searching older threads on it and with reluctance I tried it. As EDC said, KISS does work.

I’ve been really looking at heads and cams for my car now. 450-ish to the wheels will make the car way more fun. Still won’t beat a Hellcat or a lot of other street cars and I am good with that.

There is a limit to everything. How far you push it is up to you, your mechanical ability and your wallet. In reading your threads, and there is nothing wrong with this, you have around $10k in parts picked out on a car you don’t own yet. Take some time to just sit and read some threads of the past on this forum. Folks have been there and done it, spent thousands. Lots of great info. I sit back and read quite often when I am looking for suggestions or answers.
 

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2004 Pontiac GTO, LS1, 6 speed, Quicksilver/Black
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Oh, and don’t dismiss the GTO’s technology… there is a certain 1980’s turbo charged 6 cylinder car that will bitch slap a lot of today’s cars with a few grand in typical turbo car upgrades and of course, a good rear tire and a little suspension work.
 

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Don't own one but soon, 2005 Pontiac GTO, M6.
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Discussion Starter · #79 ·

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Discussion Starter · #80 ·
There is an in between, a limit, once you realize the costs and what works and what doesn’t work on the GTO. It is not the best car to turn into a drag racer unless you go all out and are ready to spend some money to make it that way. It can be a great autocrosser if you are willing to spend the money to get it there.

What is the GTO the best at? In my opinion, a 450-600 rear wheel horse power car that does a little bit of everything pretty good. I spent $7k improving my suspension, tires and brakes. $2k of that was a Brembo brake kit. I don’t go any faster but I sure stop on a dime and the confidence at triple digit speeds is satisfying. After doing a simple re-torque of the front lug nuts which eliminated a vibration, my joy ride on Sunday morning made me really appreciate the full suspension and Michelin tires on it. I found the lug nut torque tip just by searching older threads on it and with reluctance I tried it. As EDC said, KISS does work.

I’ve been really looking at heads and cams for my car now. 450-ish to the wheels will make the car way more fun. Still won’t beat a Hellcat or a lot of other street cars and I am good with that.

There is a limit to everything. How far you push it is up to you, your mechanical ability and your wallet. In reading your threads, and there is nothing wrong with this, you have around $10k in parts picked out on a car you don’t own yet. Take some time to just sit and read some threads of the past on this forum. Folks have been there and done it, spent thousands. Lots of great info. I sit back and read quite often when I am looking for suggestions or answers.
True. I guess I really don't know what I want to do to the car, there is really only one thing in mind that I absolutely have to have, I really don't want it to be some drag strip queen though, I know I've said I'd like to take it to the drag strip but my point was more, it will be a street car that I take to the drag strip every once and a while. I know the Gen IV LS isn't great for power without boost, I've realized the cost, $10k in parts is a lot, especially for someone like me, but that's the joy of it, is the research and the pricing out and just dreaming of what the car can be. And as I've said, I need the car before I make any cut and dry decisions, a lot of the parts I want are subject to change as time goes on. If there's anything I want to do with the car the most though, it's to have a stop light queen, in my opinion it takes more skill to have a good stop light car than a good drag strip car, and even if I don't beat most of the cars on the street I don't care. At the end of the day it's down to the Fifth Generation GTO is the car I want, and whether I just do a Pedders stock ride height replacement and an exhaust, or I go all out and build the motor it's the car I want. It's an underdog whether you're fast or not. It's a lot to think about and research but, again, at the end of the day, I need the car before I make any real decisions.
 
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