[MattH]

Hi, I’ve just recently got to a place to where I’m trying to fix my suspension problems, as I’m tired of everything from wheel hop to spring sag. I’ve got a game plan for everything but my rear control arm bushings. I’ve seen a lot of division on whether or not I should go full solid bushings (inner and outer) or to ditch the toe rod and go with adjustable ones.

With that in mind, I would like some clarification about the adjustable route. I was wanting to know if only one bushing is replaced with the adjustable camber sleeve and the other on the same arm solid, or do both need to be adjustable?

This car is just a bolt on daily, no track use and I do not push it very hard often, just some light highway pulls and some harder than average street take off and cornering.

 

[Nothubertjfarnsworth]

i think it boils down to preference and what you're willing to risk or put up with.

i used the ES rear control arm bushings and kept the toe rods. at least with the ES bushings, their inner bushing is softer to allow some flex to mimic the stock voided bushing. they work great.

you can use harder durometer solids in the inner and outer, but may bind at the extreme ends of wheel travel.

IMHO, adjustable bushings are really only needed if you are lowered to prevent excessive camber. if you want to prevent excessive camber because of squat, you need springs and dampers, not adjustable bushings. in your situation (debating on deleting the toe rods), folks go with adjustable bushings on all 4 spots when they want to delete the toe rod so they can still adjust the toe settings. i wouldn't just do the outers in that situation.

 

[Mick Naughty]

Having dealt with the whiteline kit coming use under normal driving and straight line use, I wouldnt ditch the toe rod. And the camber kit is ok for minimal adjustment. But cheaper and easier than boxing the subframe. I also dont have the means to adjust toe when its on the bushing compared to how easy the rod is, especially if I take it somewhere for adjustment.

 

[MattH]

i think it boils down to preference and what you're willing to risk or put up with.

i used the ES rear control arm bushings and kept the toe rods. at least with the ES bushings, their inner bushing is softer to allow some flex to mimic the stock voided bushing. they work great.

you can use harder durometer solids in the inner and outer, but may bind at the extreme ends of wheel travel.

IMHO, adjustable bushings are really only needed if you are lowered to prevent excessive camber. if you want to prevent excessive camber because of squat, you need springs and dampers, not adjustable bushings. in your situation (debating on deleting the toe rods), folks go with adjustable bushings on all 4 spots when they want to delete the toe rod so they can still adjust the toe settings. i wouldn't just do the outers in that situation.

Alright so I was looking at the energy suspension kit, and I didn’t see any mention really of what bushings got where, do they specify this in some form of instructions in the kit?

 

[Nothubertjfarnsworth]

Alright so I was looking at the energy suspension kit, and I didn’t see any mention really of what bushings got where, do they specify this in some form of instructions in the kit?

yes, the instructions should say. the bushings themselves will have different part numbers embossed on them. you can also identify them by feel. the hard durometer will feel hard AF. the soft, you can sink your thumbnail into a little. the hard durometer, which goes in the outboard spot, is 2595. the soft durometer, which goes in the inboard spot, is 2598.

just as a word of caution, i did get a set from ES where all 4 pairs of bushings were the hard durometer. so check the part numbers on your bushings if you chose to go with energy suspension.

 

[MattH]

yes, the instructions should say. the bushings themselves will have different part numbers embossed on them. you can also identify them by feel. the hard durometer will feel hard AF. the soft, you can sink your thumbnail into a little. the hard durometer, which goes in the outboard spot, is 2595. the soft durometer, which goes in the inboard spot, is 2598.

just as a word of caution, i did get a set from ES where all 4 pairs of bushings were the hard durometer. so check the part numbers on your bushings if you chose to go with energy suspension.

I’ll be sure to inspect my bushings when I get them and to do a little more looking on the website but I do appreciate the help sir, thank you very much. It’s nice to get a clear answer from someone who has had experience with them.
One last question since I’ve found my route of attack on bushings would be if adjustable toe rods are worth it and if so what brand would we suggest using? I’ve seen the ones that Gforce sells and I gotta say I’m not too keen on using heim joints for sake of service life. Are there sets out there that use bushings instead?

 

[MattH]

I’ll be sure to inspect my bushings when I get them and to do a little more looking on the website but I do appreciate the help sir, thank you very much. It’s nice to get a clear answer from someone who has had experience with them.
One last question since I’ve found my route of attack on bushings would be if adjustable toe rods are worth it and if so what brand would we suggest using? I’ve seen the ones that Gforce sells and I gotta say I’m not too keen on using heim joints for sake of service life. Are there sets out there that use bushings instead?

Let me clarify, upgraded toe rods excuse me.

 

[Nothubertjfarnsworth]

you can make your own toe rods.

you need to find some swedge tube, a tie rod end that fits, and either a heim joint rod end with some spacers, or a bushed rod end of the correct width. summit racing and speedway motors carry tons of such parts in the chassis section.

i do have a thread on here where i sourced some parts and chromoly tubing, and had them welded, and they worked great. but, you should be able to do it with the general parts i listed above. it may take some looking to find things that fit.

currently i don't have a complete parts list for using a swedge tube setup, but if you wait a month or so i should have a list of parts that i know will work.

 

[Nothubertjfarnsworth]

the stock toe rod ball joint has a 7 deg taper and the stud is about .475" wide. so most standard tie rod ends will fit as long as the stud is the right diameter. that's a 12mm dia metric stud size, or perhaps a 1/2 sae stud size will squeeze in there. the bushed end is about 1.450" wide, so something close should fit. the outer diameter of the bushed end is 1.550.

 

[Nothubertjfarnsworth]

allstar performance carries swedge tube. i would actually go with a 16 inch long 5/8th's chromoly tube, then it might be easier to find tie rods and bushed rod ends that will fit the car. 3/4" tubing looks more attractive and beefy, but you will be hard pressed to get ends that fit the car. being chromoly, the 5/8ths swedge tube should be rigid enough for street fun if you're not making tons of horsepower.

Heavy Duty 5/8in Suspension Tube 16in ALL57366

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[Nothubertjfarnsworth]

these MIGHT work. i haven't tried them... beware. don't forget to buy jam nuts.

Tie Rod End 5/8-18 LH x 4in ALL55901

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Speedway Forged Steel 4-Bar Rod Ends, 5/8-18 RH Thread, Zinc Plated

Don't settle for a weak 4-bar end made out of a piece of tubing welded to a bolt. These Speedway rod ends are made from forged steel for superior strength and durability. All rod ends feature a 5/8"-18 RH threaded shank and the polyurethane bushing has a steel sleeve that accepts a 1/2" bolt...

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Pete and Jake's Hot Rod Parts 1260-1-2 Pete and Jake's Adjustable Rod Ends | Summit Racing

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[Nothubertjfarnsworth]

f it. i'm ordering all this crap just so i can see for myself.

i hate you.

 

[Rich-Tripower]

I really like my Spohn adjustable toe rods. Very beefy and you don't have any guesswork piecing things together. GForce makes nice toe rods too but the Spohns put the adjuster in a better place.

The best thing about aftermarket toe rods is the added strength. It is not unheard of for a stock power GTO to actually bend stock toe rods.

 

[Nothubertjfarnsworth]

spohns have a heim joint on one end, though, yeah?

 

[Rich-Tripower]

spohns have a heim joint on one end, though, yeah?

Yes. Mine have been on since 2014 and they are still as tight as new. I had them off this past Winter while I was doing my rear control arm rebuild and I inspected them closely. They are holding up very well.

 

[Rich-Tripower]

The GForce ones are built the same, just adjust differently. It can be hard to adjust them with them connected to the car though.

 

[Mick Naughty]

Yea im going spohn so I can actually reach it and adjust it.

 

[Rich-Tripower]

Yea im going spohn so I can actually reach it and adjust it.

Yeah, getting at the jam nut on the subframe end of the GForce rods can be a bit of a challenge. The Spohns make all that so much easier by putting the adjuster more or less in the middle.

 

[Nothubertjfarnsworth]

i never really had an issue with the jam nuts on my gforce rods.

 

[gto57]

I bought this, Energy Suspension 3.18134R Master Set for GTO, then did a bunch of separate subframe, front radius rod bushings, etc.

https://www.amazon.com/Energy-Suspe...spension+bushing+kit+pontiacgto,aps,83&sr=8-6