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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I apologize if this has been posted before. I ran numerous cars vs. the GTO but was intrigued by the WRX and EVO times. With high spool turbos and AWD these pocket rockets have us pretty well covered until 100 mph. After that, it's all GTO. Now if you can figure out how to "hook" out of the hole, it'll be a different story.

http://www.car-videos.com/performance/view.asp?ID1=280&ID2=169

BTW. I ran numbers for cars that I have a working knowledge of and their performance data seems to be spot on. Also interesting that the track times are so close.
 

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outdrivem

The one variable that 's never taken into consideration is driving skill. As Wally Dallenbach Sr. once told me, " I don't care if you have a Porsche and I'm in a dumptruck, you're not getting around me until I say so."
 

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Numbers are fine

They tie in with testing over here in Oz. But, seriously, the STI and EVO are extremely narrow-focus limited-edition cars - like with manual water-injection in the EVO! The STI off boost (less than 4,000rpm) will be straight-lined by a standard Toyota Corolla shopping-cart - as one car mag here pointed out!

Here in Oz the standard fuel is 91/93 octane unleaded, which the Monaro will happily run on, although people say LS1s run better on 96. The STI here must run 98 octane, which is not carried by maybe 75% of outlets. They drink fuel even off-boost.

The LS1 I think requires only 10,000 mile/6 month servicing and will last minimum 100,000+ miles even with perfomance driving - try getting that out of a turbo 4!

Plus those two cars are pretty much stripped-down circuit racers. Compare the far more common WRX and the GTO pulls it apart by 60mph. Off boost, on ordinary city streets they are hard-riding low-compression fours. The Suby off-boost sounds like an old veedub with the timing off by a few degrees! The GTO rumbles nicely even at idle!

Imagine taking a trip loaded with passengers and gear - the GTO will barely notice the extra load and everyone will get out fresh as a daisy. Those things will buzz everyone to death, or rattle their fillings out. And you'd better hope your passengers are either small, or friendly!

From low revs, tyre- and drivetrain-friendly launches the GTO will pull like a train and whomp either of them. It'll look better, sound better, last longer and be worth more long-term.

Don't get me wrong, the pocket-rockets are great for what they are, but only maybe 5% of the time in the real world you'd prefer to be in one.
 

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I had the opportunity to race a WRX sti back in November. While we were not on a track we were on a closed airport runway and we ran three times. first to the 1000 foot marker and twice to the 2000 foot marker. I was in a stock 2003 Mach 1. Zero mods just as it came from the factory. The WRX sti was new so I assume it was stock also.

First run I came off the line at 3500 rpm and that thing pulled me by a car and a half out of the hole. I spun bad off the line. I was gaining at the top end but he had me by about a half car.

Second run I came off at 2800 feathering the clutch...same result though not as bad. Only a half car. I had him by the time I hit thrid and at the 2000 foot mark was almost one and 1/2 cars ahead.

Thrid run I came off at 3000 with some wheel spin but he for whatever reason did not have a good launch. We were fairly even to the 1000 foot mark but after that I pulled away. Basically when I hit third.

Those are some cool little cars. Taking one of the line will be hard but you should get him top end. If he pulls you too bad off the line it is hard to make it up though so beware.

My best 1/4 time is 13.26 at 106.21 with a 2.02 60' that is with 1/4 tank of gas and the tires down to 24 psi. I think with drag radials and exhaust mods I should be closing on the 12 second mark....

Happy hunting out there....good to see another American car frying rice!
 

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This is a touchy subject. Neither of these cars technically aren’t “rice” either. They are quick, fun (especially in inclement conditions), and easily and cheaply modifiable. A couple of people in our group who also own F-Body’s, own WRX’s as everyday drivers and of course they modify them too!

However as I’ve posted in many of the argument threads, they’re simply not my cup of tea. They could run 9’s all day long and they still wouldn’t be my cup of tea. I in particular am not a fan of forced induction vehicles and I don’t believe in AWD/4WD unless it’s in a truck. But those are just my feelings. What many of those guys that own them forget when we get into the arguments that there is sooo much more to an autombile than sheer empirical data. The way a car ignites the senses, the sounds it makes, the way it “pulls” (in any gear).

This is what the GTO has in spades. It ignites the senses! You twist the key and a rumbling melodic V8 comes to life. Whether at idle or at full battle cry and all points in between, it has a sound that soothes yes excites all at the same time. A Subaru DOESN’T! The GTO has a feel to it as you drive it and running through each gear, the feel of it “Pulling” strong no matter what gear you’re in because of it’s flat, broad and massive torque band. No need to wind it up and pop down two gears to walk away from that tailgater with the GTO! It’s sad, in the Camaro, I can out accelerate most people in 5th or 6th gears (both are considered an overdrive gear essentially) than they can by kicking it down to their 3rd or 4th “power” gears. That’s the beauty of the “GRUNT” of this motor. Something a Subaru DOESN’T have! Take the launching advantage the WRX has with it’s AWD. Race it on a highway from 55mph. You’ll simply drop it into 4th, hammer it and be in a different zip code before before he can spool his turbo up and even think of running you.

I ran a couple of ****y high school kids a month or two ago in a WRX. I wasn’t going to waste my time until they gave me the thumbs down and were screaming out the window that my Camaro was a P.O.S.! Even the dog a$$ ugly blonde chick in the passenger seat told me my car sucked. It so ends up that we caught the next stoplight. I was behind them and they were first at the light. I could hear him revving it cause I could hear it popping when he’d get out of it (most likely his blow off valve). Light goes green, he launches, I launch with a just enough wheelspin to keep from bogging down but not blowing the tires off of it. By the top of second, I had ran him right back down, and into 3rd was into the right lane and passing them like they were in reverse. We catch the next light and asked if they wanted to run this P.O.S. again and not one peep came from that car! I casually replied “That’s what I f*cking thought!”

Like I said previously, they are not my cup of tea, but they are quick. I don’t think the one I ran into was too modified. They can be a worthy adversary in the right hands. But also as I mentioned above, there is more to a car than sheer empircal data.
 

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tuffguy said:
Different strokes for different folks.

Even with an LS1, the best way to make power is with forced induction.
Not necessarily. My engine setup is conservative by today's head and cam standards, but I still make the rear wheel HP I do, pull off sub 12 second time slips, and I still manage 17mpg city and 24/25mpg highway.

What it boils down to is what you want out of it and what you’re willing to sacrifice. I was willing to sacrifice some fuel economy, but what I got in return was a car that makes it’s power 100% of the time and is on tap anywhere in the powerband should I request upon it. No need to wait for a turbo to spool and like you said about a supercharger, nothing more dragging on the motor whether I want the power or am just cruising. Conversely, with either of those, if you keep your right foot out of it, fuel economy won’t suffer as much as mine.

It’s a half of one dozen, six of another scenario. Each has their plusses and each has their minuses but to declare that one way is the best way to wake up an LS1 is a little misinformed.
 

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The GTO's redline is i beleive 6200 RPM
 

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You guys have hit on it....it comes down to personal preference. But there just is no sound in the world quite comparable to a well built American pushrod V8. Chicks dig it and guys think it's cool.

Two guys at work have WRXs and when I came to work the first time in the '96 Z28 SS, all they could say was, "Wow". It didn't matter if they were faster on the road. I reckon it to the difference between a well-tuned Hog and any of the 2-cycle Japanese bikes. The 2-cycles will blow the hog off the road, but that Hog is vastly more satisfying over the long haul. Of course, that's just my opinion!
 

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tuffguy said:
http://www.seriouswheels.com/2004-Pontiac-GTO-Dash-1280x960.htm

as you can see, it appears as though the redline starts at 5000rpm in that pic.

regardless, how would you increase it to 7000rpm then? :p
To answer your question, fuel cutoff is at 6,250rpm. To move it to 7,000rpm would require a program such as LS1Edit to alter that table.

However, there is a caveat to this. The stock LS1 valvetrain isn’t built to safely handle that level of rpm. You’ll float the system and turn pushrods into pretzels if there is a sudden change or “flashing” of rpm’s. With that said, I wouldn’t move that rev limiter up there unless you have put in chromoly pushrods as well as stronger valve springs and retainers. You can use the factory 1.7 rockers.

There really is no need to have to rev it that high either unless you have a mountain cam that makes it’s power in those high rpm’s. Otherwise 6,500 is more than sufficient. If you have a stock or mild setup, the time winding it up to 7k where you’re past the power curve is wasted time when you could’ve already shifted into your next gear and been back into the meat of the power curve and charging harder.
 

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You can't compare the cars. The subi and lancer are economy cars on steroids. The GTO is a refined muscle car. They are in completely different classes.
 

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Come on Guys, I happen to own a STI as well right now and it beats the GTO like a redheaded stepchild. It produces 300 ftlbs of torque at 3,000 rpm and only weighs 3100lbs. In winter I throw on my winter wheels and off I go.

The GTO is a great car as well, I do love big heavy V-8s and the way they pull and sound. Also the mods out there for the LS1 are endless. It is just a different tool for a slightly different job...




MarkII said:
They tie in with testing over here in Oz. But, seriously, the STI and EVO are extremely narrow-focus limited-edition cars - like with manual water-injection in the EVO! The STI off boost (less than 4,000rpm) will be straight-lined by a standard Toyota Corolla shopping-cart - as one car mag here pointed out!

Here in Oz the standard fuel is 91/93 octane unleaded, which the Monaro will happily run on, although people say LS1s run better on 96. The STI here must run 98 octane, which is not carried by maybe 75% of outlets. They drink fuel even off-boost.

The LS1 I think requires only 10,000 mile/6 month servicing and will last minimum 100,000+ miles even with perfomance driving - try getting that out of a turbo 4!

Plus those two cars are pretty much stripped-down circuit racers. Compare the far more common WRX and the GTO pulls it apart by 60mph. Off boost, on ordinary city streets they are hard-riding low-compression fours. The Suby off-boost sounds like an old veedub with the timing off by a few degrees! The GTO rumbles nicely even at idle!

Imagine taking a trip loaded with passengers and gear - the GTO will barely notice the extra load and everyone will get out fresh as a daisy. Those things will buzz everyone to death, or rattle their fillings out. And you'd better hope your passengers are either small, or friendly!

From low revs, tyre- and drivetrain-friendly launches the GTO will pull like a train and whomp either of them. It'll look better, sound better, last longer and be worth more long-term.

Don't get me wrong, the pocket-rockets are great for what they are, but only maybe 5% of the time in the real world you'd prefer to be in one.
 

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According to the Subaru web site, the weight is 3298. That gives the GTO a slight advantage in horsepower to weight. Granted, the Subaru will out accelerate the GTO through the 1/8 mile because of the all wheel drive, but the GTO will get it at the 1/4 mile mark.

They are different cars for different purposes. I have driven both the EVO and the STi and considered buying both of them before I drove a GTO. My biggest complaint was they are small and have four doors, but the all wheel drive is definitely a winner!
 

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Why did someone bring up a 9 month old post?
 
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