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Yes my name is Holden
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Discussion Starter #1
Greetings guys; I've had my Beloved GuTOo for 13 years now! Sold my Hot Rod & hope to use some of the proceeds to accommodate The "Affliction" I can't leave it stock! So this year I'll lay in parts (?) & on it's 14th anniversary with me do a refresh - Modest Mod Thrash. That is if my Ole' body has the strength & energy. Ls-2, A-4 with 44,000 now. When I get back from last bucket trip (Holden Run 2020), I'll clean it & jack it up. So chime in, $3000 max budget & NO torque converter swap. Only mods now are Shorty JBA's & off road mids ( I couldn't stand the smell of the OE cats). Oh & a Voliant air box, Magna Flow True X in place of the mid muffler. Yes it is Loud straight through's (Dyno Max SS). Ok I ported the throttle body & OE intake, net gain 8 HP maybe? I'm thinking (danger) a BRM strut tower brace. Are they worth the expense? X-Air or Var-a-Ram, after market throttle body, Will a 102 work with my OE ported manifold? Head work more than likely. Suggestions welcome. Truion up grade of course (bushings?) & push rods (Smith Bros). Oh wait I forgot, since the coolant is out (heads off) ya might as well replace the oil pump (& kill gas mileage), timing chain
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, cam & lifters. That's why I'll need push-rods. Opinions welcome & THANK You for all the past help & Future help, Ole' Bob.
Ps My first new thread since getting my access back
 

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I've read headwork is definitely worth it even if you have the stock cam. If you don't mind waiting, send it off for some good CnC work.

I wouldn't worry about a strut brace, porting the throttle body, or the stock manifold. Go straight for a FAST 102LXR intake manifold if your budget allows.
 

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Yes my name is Holden
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Discussion Starter #4
Thank You Much, I even clean behind the rubber thresh hold gasket! Some say I'm "Car Nuts"? Ole' Bob.
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Yes my name is Holden
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Discussion Starter #5
So who do you like for head work? I'm considering local for milling, seat & face finishing. Myself for a modest port clean up OR I like the guys at Livernois Motor Sports for a 5 axis job??
 

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Advanced Induction and Total Engine Airflow are good, but i think they get pretty booked and you might be waiting for a while. I have a set of AI heads and they are great.

Texas Speed does CnC work now, too, but i haven't read any reviews of their work.

Any place that does quality work and will do a good bowl blend will get you good gains, though. From the research i've done, a 3-angle seat cut is fine.
 

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Yes my name is Holden
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Discussion Starter #8
Mr Farnsworth & all; Please go back & re read my first post. I value your opinion & others as well. But by re-reading it you will be able to see my plans for after the "2020 Holden Run" Starting in January I'll be seriously considering starting a parts pile. Ole' Bob.
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Ps: Yes I ported for a living back in the early 70's.
 

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Mr Farnsworth & all; Please go back & re read my first post. I value your opinion & others as well. But by re-reading it you will be able to see my plans for after the "2020 Holden Run" Starting in January I'll be seriously considering starting a parts pile. Ole' Bob.
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Ps: Yes I ported for a living back in the early 70's.
I was hoping you'd say something like that!

In that case, i would weigh heavily on getting a good set of 243 or 799 heads and having a shop mill, do a valve face and seat job, and porting it yourself.

Took a quick look at the livernois website, 500 a head for CnC work isn't bad at all. Not sure what they do vs a place like AI or TEA, though.
 

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Sorry if i didn't catch stuff, i tend to skim, i end up skipping words and it always gets me in trouble.

I think you should totally do a cylinder head porting thread. That would be an amazing contribution to the site. :)

I still think you should get a FAST 102 manifold. You can recoup some cash with your quality ported and painted LS2 manifold, and then be up another 10 or so horsepower. I wouldn't worry about the 102 throttle body.

I think with a 3k budget, 900 for the FAST 102 manifold, and a few hundred for the machine work on the heads, couple hundred for the gaskets fluids and other stuff, you should be ahead.
 

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(...and yes, i think you should keep the stock cam. SLEEPER.)

and when you add the longevity of the stock valvetrain, personally, if i had another LS2 GTO, i would do it that way. and it would work amazing with keeping your stock converter.

EDIT:

sorry for editing yet again, haha, but i had to find this. it's an old, old thread from ls1tech where someone posted a dyno on their LS1 with 243 heads and a stock cam, i added bold and italics, note who posted it:


Advanced Induction said:
We've managed well over 400rwhp on 346cid by cutting the 241's and sticking with the OEM cams. If you're at ~360rwhp w/ minimal to moderate inlet/exh restriction then you'd likely see ~400rwhp with our CNC work applied to the 243's, retaining the OEM camshaft. It is a great combination if you must retain stock drivability or look/sound to avoid scrutiny. :)
so, this is not from joe shmo diy modder dude, it's from a very reputable CnC head shop. think about that... your LS2 comes with what is basically the early LS6 cam from the factory. it's a fairly good cam. A nice mill, bowl blend, and some good port work, and you could be north of 400 whp. that's, like, cam-only ls2 numbers, without the choppy idle, save you all the money dumped in the valvetrain, rockers, and cam, and will still drive like stock and match perfect with your stock converter.
 

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Yes my name is Holden
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Discussion Starter #12
Greetings Mr. Farnsworth & all; Very good read & interesting approach. Since I'm in the "Yes port heads camp"' but I have trouble justifying the 5 axis cost over what I can do. A bottle of advil & my time vs $1000.00. How much HP-Torque would I leave on the table? And will my ole wrists last the many hours it takes? I do have a line on a used Fast intake, we'll see if that develops? Since I have one low volume (production #'s) Throttle body, one of my priorities will to be to get an aftermarket unit that can be easily replaced without a new tune. I've had trouble with P-2135 codes & it looks like both times it's been the gas pedal switch. I now have 3! You just can't find Ls-2 throttle bodies & gas pedals for these on short notice. So If I have a Jeg's - Summit throttle body & it turns to brown soft smelly stuff I can get a new one in one day. Oh cams, lets see I love ported heads but I come of age during the solid lifter Golden years! I just sold my solid roller lifter Hot Rod because my wrists aren't strong enough to set values any longer. So I guess I'm a Hydraulic lifter guy now. For many years I've used the L-79 as a bench mark cam (duration). Of course now days ya get a bunch of bonus lift with rollers. Thank you & keep it up, Ole' Bob.
Ps: the first two pictures are my buddies heads I did 3 years ago & the last picture is my heads, I did back in 2004-05.
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I think you could get very close to what the reputable shops do. The thing with CnC programs is that they are a copy of what someone did by hand, now with the aid of a computer and a CnC mill they can replicate the exact shape over and over... someone with the skill and knowledge could definitely do it themselves.

you can too, you obviously have the skills. great thing about a hobby is that you can take your time or take a break if it starts hurting!

Wow, the L79 was way before my time. sometimes i wish i was around back then when muscle cars were new. this is totally tangential, but there is an engine masters episode where they do solid roller lifters on a hydraulic cam with an LS motor, and made power over the hydraulic lifters. if you have motor trend on demand, watch it. pretty cool stuff.

As far as throttle bodies, I can't say how much porting actually helps the DBW units. Throttle response, definitely, but a 90mm bore flows quite a bit. LS2 Throttle bodies are still available, but pricey. You are right on about the gas pedals, i've got a spare stowed away for that day when the dreaded code pops up. A few guys have done the gold-blade LS3 throttle bodies without a tune, but I have never tried it. Currently running the NW102 DBW, and i can say that definitely needs a tune. you need to change the ETC area scaler, and then redo some of the other idle tables to get it dialed in, like base air. Easy if you are familiar with something like hptuners, but a lot of guys don't like to mess with that stuff.

so, you're obviously dead-set on an aftermarket cam, haha. ever talk to EDC?
 

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OH about the trunnion upgrade, there is a bit of commotion on LS1tech about them lately. seems the bronze bushes aren't lasting as long as advertised. of course there is the comp trunnions, but we all know how those wear. WS6 store is selling a different type of roller bearing design which could be better, but i haven't heard too many long term reviews yet, and there is also the CHE bronze bushing set, which may last longer than the smith bros/straub kits.

if the cam you end up going with isn't too aggressive, you might consider sticking with the stock rockers. getting a set of comp ultra magnum rollers that are adjustable may work out for you, too.

this is just another reason why i just like the idea of running an OEM cam in an LS motor... that valvetrain is designed to last for a very long time. There are so many other areas that you can delve into to make power, even with an n/a setup. Even if you went with a "hotter" version of a factory cam. Granted, you won't see the amazing numbers with a max effort cam, but LS motors are so potent as they are. Like i said, if i was going to go back and do it again, and have a street car, it would be an LS2 with an OEM cam and some very nice heads, with all the supporting mods.
 

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For 3k you aren't going to do heads, cam, intake plus all the small supporting stuff you'll need and a tune. You will reallyyyyyy want to swap out the converter if you do a cam. I'd upgrade to longtubes and an xair too.
 

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Yes my name is Holden
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Discussion Starter #17
Good day Guys; Well I spent a bunch of time in the garage yesterday playing (Learning ) about gas pedals. SKIP this post if your brain is near full! Keep in mind that I have 3. The OE w/ bad switch, One from Texas (TX) that I disassembled (NOT recommended) And one from Kansas (Ka) factor Sealed! If you disassemble the pedal assembly (linage pivot _ switch plug housing) you will find like I did, GM built a 4-5 degree adjustment into the switch mount (5 screws). Ok if ya got a computer wiz buddy that will build ya a 5 Volt generator - receiver ya may do less damage? Our equipment is NOT calibrated to GM specs. I'll call the adjustment we experimented with near & far (relating far for fire wall & near to our Lead Feet. Ka switch is a "XH" @ idle -4.0, +0.5 & @ Wo (wide Open) -0.9, +2.4 volts, our OE base line. My OE pedal W/ Tx "XM" switch adjusted in the near position @ idle -4.0, +0.5 & @ Wo -1.1, +1.8 : I had this assembly on my trip to the Dragon, but was adjusted to the mid position.So when you twist the switch (same assembly my OE & Tx switch) to the far position @ idle -3.8, +0.6 & @ Wo -0.8, +2.4 : some where between these two settings I was at the side of the road. Thank you to the many that helped me get home. Now put the Tx "XM" switch back on the Tx pedal assembly. Adjust to Near position @ idle -4.0, +0.5 & @ Wo -1.1, +1.9 : now the far position @ idle-4.0, +0.5 & @ wo -0.8, +2.5 : Wow That's a lot info. Anyway that what's back on the car all codes cleared. Can't start it because it's winter & the door is sealed down until spring! I'll test this set up all this coming summer to build up my confidence for Holden Run 2020. Next post I'll go to MORE Power additions for next 2020-01 winter. Ok I know this winter just started last night. We lay in parts this coming summer. Thank you & keep it coming but Please read first post. NO converted swap, period. Ole' Bo
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Yes my name is Holden
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Discussion Starter #18
Greetings Guys; Ok back to spending hypothetical money & making additional HP! Apparently I've got enough helpers even if my body won't-can't, it could be done. So has anybody put a 102 mm throttle body on ported Ls-2 intake? Just for clarification I call an inlet- filter housing box plumbed to the throttle body an "air box". And a intake manifold (comes after the throttle body) a "intake"! So I'm laying in parts this coming year 2020 to do a thrash to add some zip. Preferably in the 2500 to 6500 RPM range. I don't want more power off idle. My valve seals are coming up 15 years old, even thou It doesn't use oil they are not in the early stages of life. And my OE valve springs also 15 years old with 44,000 miles & a good many bursts to 6200. I've tested valve springs that had 11,000 miles recently & they were down 10%-15% on pressure. Of course I could do springs & seals with heads on car (Ok maybe my body is too old?) with help, but being an Ole' head porter how can I stop their? I'm in love with that 218*-223* @.050" cam. Oh I'm not a fan of our plastic retainer style lifters either. How many of you guys have seen video's of push rods at RPM? Many start turning to spaghetti above 5500. So since I would like to see 6500-6700 on tap the Smith Brothers would get involved. So can ya swap the cam & retain the freon? Or am I talking a recharge? Opinions welcome, Ole' Bob.
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i wouldn't try a 102mm tb on a stock manifold. it can't be ported to match. iirc. Going to need a fast 102.

10-15% drop in spring pressure after a break in period sounds normal. but it seems like you're looking for some reasons to upgrade, lol.

if you're dead set on a cam swap and some aftermarket link-bar lifters, we're talking some dough. you're going to go over budget.

might as well get a 23x/23x duration, at least... if you're going to swap a cam, go big(ish).
 

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Yes my name is Holden
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Discussion Starter #20
Good Evening Farnsworth & all; I have a line on a used Fast 102 & X-air & if the stars line up I should have that by the end of January? Bohman is coming by to work on my radio in late January, so one way or the other I'll have an X-air by February? That will allow me to replace the OE Throttle body that's at the top of my Priority list. So that forces me to port match & that pushes me to remove the heads. Here comes that snow ball down the hill growing as it goes! And if I feel as good next winter as I feel now I will port one more set of heads. Then off to the machine shop for a cut .025" (??) some carbide seat work & a couple of angles on the valves. I'm looking at Comp kit 26918TS-KIT Beehive Valve Spring Kit with Tool Steel Retainers Good for .640" lift, so if I go to a .600" lift cam that's a .050" increase over the OE Ls-2. Oh I'm not dead yet, I mean "dead set" on a cam swap. But I am bias to the 223* & under for street road cars. If ya exceed that magic # the converter won't be happy, been their done that. First post the converter will remain OE, No exceptions. For reference my Bronze Brick had a 230*-236* solid roller & required a 2100 RPM after market converter & even that was a bit tight. But Loved the cam! Thank you & keep them opinions coming, Ole Bob.
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