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Moving Forward
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Your Warranty and Your Rights!

I see various things posting in many of these forums regarding warranty issues, but no one seems to have any facts to back up their claims. So here are your legal rights about warranties and what you can do to your car.
A warranty cannot be voided due to the presence of Aftermarket parts! The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act (15 U.S.C. 2302(C)) protects all of us and every car in the United States. The dealer must prove that your aftermarket part is what caused the damage to the vehicles. Even then, they may refuse to service that part, but anything not effected will still be covered under warranty. So basically if you have a supercharger and it blows the head gasket, they can refuse to service your car saying that the supercharger caused the damage. This would be correct. They cannot void the entire warranty, lets say the trany died too, they would now have to prove that your supercharger caused the damage to the tranny.
Now your saying the Dealer said this the dealer said that. It doesnt matter what the dealer says to you. They don't want to fix it period. They give people a hard time even when its obvious defects in OEM parts. You basically have to fight for your right as a consumer. Don't take the dealers word. Mention that your lawyer might have to get involved if they do not honor your warranty.
Just so you know where your legal rights are check out SEMA's website http://www.semasan.com/ and their promotional website which has all of the legal information http://www.enjoythedrive.com/content/?id=8128 and have fun modding.
 

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Razinhell said:
I see various things posting in many of these forums regarding warranty issues, but no one seems to have any facts to back up their claims. So here are your legal rights about warranties and what you can do to your car.
A warranty cannot be voided due to the presence of Aftermarket parts! The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act (15 U.S.C. 2302(C)) protects all of us and every car in the United States. The dealer must prove that your aftermarket part is what caused the damage to the vehicles. Even then, they may refuse to service that part, but anything not effected will still be covered under warranty. So basically if you have a supercharger and it blows the head gasket, they can refuse to service your car saying that the supercharger caused the damage. This would be correct. They cannot void the entire warranty, lets say the trany died too, they would now have to prove that your supercharger caused the damage to the tranny.
Now your saying the Dealer said this the dealer said that. It doesnt matter what the dealer says to you. They don't want to fix it period. They give people a hard time even when its obvious defects in OEM parts. You basically have to fight for your right as a consumer. Don't take the dealers word. Mention that your lawyer might have to get involved if they do not honor your warranty.
Just so you know where your legal rights are check out SEMA's website http://www.semasan.com/ and their promotional website which has all of the legal information http://www.enjoythedrive.com/content/?id=8128 and have fun modding.

wow thats great info thanks.

question: say you do all this work to your engine and its cranking out some major power and it basically melts your tranny. how does the dealer prove that your mods destroyed the tranny? obviously, its just common sense. but is there any actual legal proof that they can obtain besides just saying that the power was too much for the tranny?
 

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Captain Thread Killer returns
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Thanks man that was very informative.......

oh ya and about your choice up there under your name......

Get a GOAT you won't regret it at all!!!
 

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hey Razinhell,
i also just noticed your title. my brother bought a G35 the other weekend. he only drove it a couple days and traded it in cuz he realized its not practical for his job (salesman). anyways, it was a pretty sweet car, i never got to drive though. its a tough call. but im going with the GOAT b/c of pure american (australian????) V8 hp
 

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Thanks for the great links. The G35 and GTO are totally different in feel. After you test both it should become obvious which way you want to go.
:drink: :drink:
 

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gtodriver7 said:
wow thats great info thanks.

question: say you do all this work to your engine and its cranking out some major power and it basically melts your tranny. how does the dealer prove that your mods destroyed the tranny? obviously, its just common sense. but is there any actual legal proof that they can obtain besides just saying that the power was too much for the tranny?
They would have to do their homework. They would have to look up the specs for the transmission to see what it is rated at, then dyno your motor to see what its putting out. THEN they could say that it was your mods that blew the tranny. The point is, the burden of proof is on THEM, not you.

Most of the time it is not the dealer, but the GM area rep that is denying work. All warranty work has to be approved, the dealer doesn't care because he gets paid for it. I had my car in for the coolant leak and had them check to see if it had the yellow OK stamped on the head for the proper flywheel torque specs. It did, but he said he would have loved to do the work because he gets PAID to do that work.
 

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Moving Forward
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Discussion Starter #8
As far as your first post, I'd say the lawyer and the dealership would decide. If your putting that much power to an engine you should of know in the first place that stock parts have their limit. Everyone hates lawyers, but sometimes its the only way you can fight back without beating the crap out of people (Refering to the GTO driver who's car was showered with rocks from some stupid S10 guy).
As for the G35 Couple its got decent power (damn V6 though) and nice interior, but very annoying console controls (small buttons everywhere). Then i was looking on Pontiac's website and came across this
http://www.pontiac.com/concept/index.jsp?brand=fuelingzone&pagename=home
Its the Pontic GTO Autocross!!! I was like wow this is what a GTO can look like! I just don't like the left side exhaust, i'd have to change it to look like this Autocross model.
 

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Razinhell said:
Its the Pontic GTO Autocross!!! I was like wow this is what a GTO can look like! I just don't like the left side exhaust, i'd have to change it to look like this Autocross model.
You might be suprised on the left side exhaust. At first I wasn't sure about it. Now I wouldn't change it. Everyone has dual exhaust on seperate sides. The GTO is different and I like that. I also like having all the exhaust coming out on the drivers side. Even in the colder months I was driving around with my window part way down so I could hear the sweet exhaust sounds.
 

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Knight Errant
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400 Hp

Razinhell said:
As far as your first post, I'd say the lawyer and the dealership would decide. If your putting that much power to an engine you should of know in the first place that stock parts have their limit. Everyone hates lawyers, but sometimes its the only way you can fight back without beating the crap out of people (Refering to the GTO driver who's car was showered with rocks from some stupid S10 guy).
As for the G35 Couple its got decent power (damn V6 though) and nice interior, but very annoying console controls (small buttons everywhere). Then i was looking on Pontiac's website and came across this
http://www.pontiac.com/concept/index.jsp?brand=fuelingzone&pagename=home
Its the Pontic GTO Autocross!!! I was like wow this is what a GTO can look like! I just don't like the left side exhaust, i'd have to change it to look like this Autocross model.
Hmmmm... They state 5.7L V8 engine with "GM Performance Parts camshaft and LS-6 heads" generating 400HP..... Did they just give away the candy store? :)
 

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Issues with a Liberal Dealer

As one of the most liberal dealers I think in the west coast, here is what we might do if there was potential aftermarket related problems. If diagnostic or inspection times ae involved in the repair, I.E. a driveability concern, we may elect to charge the customer a up front diagnostic charge. If the probelm we find is not related to the items installed, then there would not be a charge. If there is aftermarket equipment involved that adds time to a repair, then the customer may pay a "add time" for the repair. the factory's flat rate hour is traditionally 30% less that posted retail flat rate, and traditionally less per hour than retail. GM is proud that they pay their dealers less than most manufacturers. Now if we install something and it is in the way during a repair, then we will eat the extra time. One of the biggest problems we see is interior work when aftermarket entertainment or sterio systems added. Not all installations are made equally.I have seen such sloppyness in install jobs that I refused to do the job because we could be heald responsible for future repairs.
If a dealer does not have experience with many of the performance and add on kits, they may not want to get involved because of potential costs down the road. Operating a service department like GM wants it to be run is very expensive, and cookie cutter style. Its the rare dealership that thinks out of the box, and incorporates conservative approaches to performance gains. Have had 2 10 inch lifted trucks come in the other day that we did not sell or install. One had almost 40 Inch tall tires and judging by the mud on the undercarraige, was having a great time with it. had a shimmy in the front end and wanted it repaired under warranty. I denied it. The other had a potential internal engine probelm that might have required taking the engine out. Not dealing with the effects part, I did not have the equipment to take the engine out of a 10inch lift plus an additional 5-6 inches becuase of the tires. He left upset, but if I would have attempted to do this job, I could have eaten 5-6 hours addtional. If we sold the vehicle and added the left,(we did not) then we would have taken care of it. We do 6 inch lifts max. A cust came in with a blower on his Firebird. Had a water pump failure. We charged him some time due to the actual versus paid time to get the pump in and out.I think this was fair. If accessary stuff that GM does not sell or support starts costing them money, then they will get worse than they are. Also not all factory reps are the same. The dealers have to learn how to work with them. We sold a used T/A 6 speed to a couple that gave the vehicle to their daughter, who had a boyfirned who thought he was the perfect drag racer. He took the vehicle to the drags, and made almost 10 runs in the presence of the sales person who sold them the car. the customer blew up the clutch and towed the vehicle back in and wanted to return the vehicles. The father had no idea what was happening. He bought a clutch, paid to put the vehcile back to stock (cat convertors removed) and traded the vehicle in for a SUV. Had a customer in a Sunfire that was tricked out. Had a major lose in compression. Looking at the engine, you could see things were removed (aftermarket) but not sure. Inquiring with the owner, he said his engineering class was using the engine to monitor emissions and test equipment was added. Thoguth this was simple enough. Took the heads off, and you could see there was some serious combustion heat which melted 3 out of 4 pistons. Making inquiries about this the customer became abusive. later recieved a email from a mystery person. This customer had a web sight that showed him racing with nitrous. He also posted info on how to get around dealers and was bragging how he was taking advantage of us, the dealer, and admitted he was running too much nitrous on his "last couple of runs" He bought the new motor, not GM
dms
 

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Knight Errant
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dms said:
As one of the most liberal dealers I think in the west coast, here is what we might do if there was potential aftermarket related problems. If diagnostic or inspection times ae involved in the repair, I.E. a driveability concern, we may elect to charge the customer a up front diagnostic charge......(snip)......He also posted info on how to get around dealers and was bragging how he was taking advantage of us, the dealer, and admitted he was running too much nitrous on his "last couple of runs" He bought the new motor, not GM
dms
Fair, rational, and reasonable DMS... :)
 

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Discussion Starter #15
You see the problem too. Its the dealers that are trying to take advantage of the customers who are hurting the dealers that actually work with their customers. You'd think most dealers would work with a customer and try to develop a relationship so that they may make future purchases like a 2007 GTO. To bad your dealerhship isn't on the east coast, sounds like you run a resputable operation. I also think that some people are just idiots and think that the dealer is actually part of GM and has money coming out of his/her pockets. In reality the dealership is a tough business, take a look at Edmunds.com where one of their editors went undercover as a dealer himself at a few dealerships to get the real aspect of what is all about. In the end if everyone is just reasonable to each other, both parties can work things out.
 

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For you guys looking at the GTO Autocross on the Pontiac Show Car website, did you happen to notice the location of the fuel tank filler? It's in the same place as say the 427 Monaro pics that have been floating around in the tail light threads. Curious.
 
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